Re: Mchipper to the kill file
From: Mitch Crane (a-one_at_a-two.a-three)
Date: 10/28/03
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Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:21:20 -0600
mchiper <notnuts@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:apmrpv0eg4n6rt2chh4eaga8e578m1eahh@4ax.com:
>
> In alt.lang.asm, Msg ID:
> <Xns9421912152195616F6E656174776F6174@216.196.97.132> Mitch Crane
> <a-one@a-two.a-three>, wrote:
>
>>mchiper <notnuts@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:96gqpvgjvp76c65q9g6ldmsea8r4nkfe7p@4ax.com:
>>> Entropy is the thermodynamic notion,
>>> that seeks to explain Why you cannot unscramble an egg.
>>
>>I think it explains why an egg won't unscramble itself without some
>>help.
>
> True, but energy is not the only loss..
>
>>> Real processes are all irreversible.
>>
>>Since information can never be destroyed,
>>that would not technically be true.
>
> It's both technically, and practically absolutely true.
In some sense, I suppose. Even if I manage to unscramble the egg, I've
created a lot more entropy in the process, so all isn't as it was (just
the egg).
>>The total entropy in a system may not be reversible,
>>but locally it should be.
>
> This is nonsense..
> entropy is not the "thing" being reversed.
> When entropy doesn't increase, the process is reversible.
Locally it is.
>>I can knock over a stack of blocks, but I can always stack
>>them up again. Even if, as a whole, I've increased the entropy in the
>>universe, the blocks are back in order.
>
> The system, under consideration, is NOT the universe.
> It's the stack of blocks, and you.
> Knock them down, and the entropy of "the system" increases.
> Stack them up, and it increases some more.
I think not. If I have two identical stacks of blocks (the systems), one
of which has been knocked over and restacked and the other has not been
knocked over, how can anyone tell which was knocked over and restacked,
thus being the system with greater entropy, if all you look at is the
blocks?
> In any case, the blocks have not been restored to the
> same condition as before knocking them down..
> - But merely to your satisfaction..
> (What you didn't know about differences
> between the blocks, for instance, has been lost forever.)
It can't be. Information can't be lost, whether I know the information or
not. Where entropy increases generally is in the heat I create in the
process of stacking those blocks (through chemical reactions in my
muscles and brain). The blocks may go back to their former state, but
overall it's a losing proposition. As I said, the process in a general
sense may not have been reversed because the universe has chaned
irrevocably, but the blocks themselves can (theoretically if not
practically) be restored to their former state.
>>> Thermo deals mostly with "perfect" processes.
>>> They are reversible.
>>> Entropy, is that je ne cest quai that makes the difference
>>> between the world we imagine, and the REAL world.
>>> The notion is:
>>> For ALL real processes, entropy increases.
>>> Thus the REAL world, is headed toward the total absence of heat.
>>> A cold place, from which there is NO return.
>>
>>Where is the heat going?
> Heat can only go from a warm place to a cooler place.
> It takes energy (or work) to make it go
> from a cooler place to a warmer place.
> An air conditioner does this..
> I takes heat from your "cool" house..
> and pumps it into the warmer out doors.
>
>>How will it leak out of the universe?
> It doesn't..
>>I assume the heat will all still be here, just very evenly diffused.
> No..
> It will take an eternity, but It's been all used up..
> Think of the last bit of it, getting lost in a universe of nothing.
> (Like spitting in the ocean...)
Heat doesn't get used up. It'll still be here. Would it not violate the
principal of uncertainty if the temperature of something were 0?
> Truth is stranger than fiction..
> --
> Ray
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