Re: Canonical format for header files

From: Beth (
Date: 02/17/04

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:27:38 -0000

Randy wrote:
> Beth wrote:
> > No, the thing that'll more ensure that it never gets written is if
> > developers - such as yourself - bother to sign on to the project
> > that they can access and contribute to the code base so that no
> > code is created whatsoever...which is kind of "never get written"
> > definition, wouldn't you say? Or is that too _practical_ and not
> > "theoretical" enough for you?
> Well, I'd have to find my sourceforge acct info somewhere :-)
> Seriously, I am interested, I'm just snowed under getting ready
> for a concert next weekend and I burn up all my free time
> defending Rene's right to post whatever he wants to this newsgroup

Yeah, could simply scrub bothering to defend Rene's right
to post...after all, let me wave the fact that this is an unmoderated
newsgroup in front of doesn't particularly matter if he has a
"right" or not, it'll happen anyway...and this big old "debate" isn't
doing your reputation any good you can save lots of extra
time not bothering with this I have plenty of extra
time and no discipline not to do it! ;)...

And understood on the old concert thingy...

> > No, dumbo; I'm "Project Manager" over on the page devoted to it in
> > SourceForge...I'm low on developers (only Yeoh - bless his heart -
> > signed up..._you_ haven't bothered, even though it's basically
> > your idea and making it "generic" was to handle _your_ HLA
> >'s quite possible, you know, that the LuxAsm team
> > just do the dedicated "C -> NASM" (eventually, "C -> LuxAsm")
> > convertors ourselves, per T.M.Sommers' advice on not bothering
> > "generic"...yet, pardon if I'm a touch annoyed here, but I wrote
> > SourceForge and FSF about the "licence" issues, I created the
> > SourceForge project and spent a while creating a mailing-list and
> > tweaking all the project settings, I took the time to convince the
> > LuxAsm team this would be a great idea, I stuck by my pledge to
> > help you with the "portable GUI library" even though I'm with
> > (but the two "overlap" a lot that working for one can be working
> > the other, using things like this "generic" tool :), I sent out an
> > Email asking for developers, I put together a webpage,
> > blah-blah-blah...and you won't even send back an Email of "okay,
> > on-board!", let alone take two minutes max to create a SourceForge
> > account and send me the username? As I say, Randy, pardon if I'm
> > sounding a touch annoyed by all of this but perhaps spoken aloud
> > might realise why...going "generic" was specifically so that I
> > also help HLA as well as LuxAsm at the same time...I do this and I
> > don't even get a "show willing" response from you? I know you do
> > lots to do but considering you're writing these long debates on
> > one more short Email of "you've set up the project, great!" or
> > something is much less effort than these posts here...thank you,
> > for being the only one who said "yeah, great stuff, sign me up!"
> > all the effort I put into it...especially because you weren't
> > one of the ones who came up with the idea or the "canonical form"
> > as a RosAsm user, probably don't give a flying fudge about
> > you still signed up on the "potential" the project's not
> > I was even asking for anyone to write any code, just sign up to
> > mailing-list to have "idea conversations" just like this one here,
> > "consultants" are as good as "developers" during the planning
phase at
> > the very least...nothing more than that)...
> Don't be annoyed. If it's a good idea (and I think it is), it will
> But in order for it to work out, it's going to take time and a lot
> communication.

Granted, it's not impatience, was the lack of that "lot of
communication" that got me annoyed...I'd done stuff and sent out
announcements and got plainly _nothing_ in return, other than Yeoh's
responses...I wasn't expecting for you to dump all the code on me
overnight or anything but like _some_ kind of communication wasn't
asking too much, surely? Just to stop me thinking I was talking to a
brick wall...or, as I had started to think, people actually thought it
was a _bad_ idea and that's why no-one was responding...without any
communication at all, you see, you just can't tell...

I know I'm hardly one to talk because I do this all the time too
(mainly because I find it impossible to write _short_ replies ;) but
"regular, short" is actually usually a whole lot more useful than
"long, infrequent"...easier said than done, though, granted...but it
reminds me of watching this "DIY SOS" TV programme where the show is
about sending a team of builders and decorators to real people's
houses to basically fix up bad or incomplete "do it yourself"
stuff...and the show is _full_ of people who think "I'll redecorate
the house" and dive straight into it and then give up when it takes
more than a day to's a common ailment...when, in fact, you're
probably a whole lot more likely to succeed with a "five minutes every
day" regime than a "I will build Rome in a day" don't
get tired (both physically and mentally) after only five minutes and,
as long as it's regular, you'll get to the end eventually...I get this
all the time with my programming, in fact...that I kind of want to do
everything all in one go and do some "marathon" session and then I'm
just sick of the sight of the code the next day and can't be bothered
with it anymore...but when I do "a little bit here" and "a little bit
there" approach, things usually go along quite well and,
yeah, totally...impatience isn't the problem...just the lack of any
communication whatsoever - deathly silence - is a touch different to
that...just one Email or post with "okay, that's great...I'll write
back to you again next week because I'm snowed under with a concert
this weekend" says it just confirms that people are with the
idea and I'm not barking up the wrong tree and all that sort of
thing...once I know this, then things can, indeed, be perfectly
"casual" rush at all...but that first confirmation is slightly know, if _no-one_ replied - but Yeoh did - then I was
seriously considering "oh, if no-one replies soon then I might as well
delete the project and give SourceForge their hard disk space
back"...after all, it is just "on loan" from SourceForge and I'm not a
person that likes to take advantage...yeah, yeah...SourceForge have
plenty of space but it's NOT _my_ space and I didn't pay for it, which
makes all the difference to me...if things will eventually be
happening, great, leave it be and wait around for that...but if I'd
still got no reply six months later then I have kind of
unintentionally stolen SourceForge space that could have been used for
some other project that is actually going to go somewhere...

You know what I mean? That first reply is different to all other
"communications" tells me whether or not other people are
actually going with the idea...even a simple "show of hands" single
word "yes or no" reply is good enough there...thereafter, fine, take a
week or two to sort things out, that's great...I'll surely be doing
the same myself at some point (in a sense, I _am_ with LuxAsm because
of my problems with getting Linux to actually work but I can still do
all the "talking" and "planning" stuff, just so that everyone else
knows that it really is a serious hardware problem I've got - I've
tried loads of things and it looks like something serious is broken so
this is actually going to require new hardware of some kind,
probably - and not because I'm not interested in coding things up or
doing experiments or's actually really annoying because
I want to try out the ELF stuff I've been reading about but can't
really do that in a useful way until the Linux machine is working...I
can reboot _this_ machine to Linux but switching OSes all the time is
something I don't want to's worth sorting out this problem -
even if takes up a little time - than to not bother and stick with an
awkward "half measure" the long run, getting the Linux machine
working will speed things up big-time that it'll easily eventually
outweigh the "delays" so far in sorting out this problem I have :)...

Beth :)