Re: [OT] Paging Frank K. (was: 'Re: [OT] Why Bush?')

From: Percival (dragontamer5788_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/14/04 

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:20:20 -0500

The©Wannabee# wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:21:20 -0500, Percival <dragontamer5788@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The©Wannabee# wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:11:11 -0500, Percival
>>> <dragontamer5788@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Betov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> About "Radiation pollutions of Fission". I have already
>>>>> answered, that this is a democratic control problem and
>>>>> not a technical problem. Anyway, this is a _temporary_
>>>>> problem, and a temporary solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Explain how billions of tons of radioactive material that has a
>>>> half-life of thousands of years is a _temporary_ problem?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send it into a known orbit, that takes that much time until it
>>> returns. Then pick up that garbage, and store it in a mountain.
>>
>>
>> $$$$ 'Nuff Said.
>>
>> If it was possible, All our garbage would be disposed of like that,
>> except directly to the sun or moon instead.
>
>
> What if we did it once every 10 years ? Or 5 ?

If you insist :)

>> We are eternal, but not of this world. Death brings us elsewhere, and
>> you would fear it if you have sins on your soul.
>
>
> No. I have sins on my soul because you tell me I do. From looking at my
> life, I can explain most of the things I did. I bet this is true for
> most people.

We tell you that you have sins on your soul because there is no one in
the world who never sinned, except Jesus. That is one root of our
belief. A sin is basically a mistake that effected someone elses life.
They range from serious sins (Murder, adultery, etc), aka mortal sins,
to minor sins (stealing to survive, giving names to others, anything a
perfect person wouldn't do).

>> lets end this discussion. Experiance says that discussion on this
>> subject brings nothing but flame wars and misunderstandings. These are
>> my principles, and my beliefs. No need to make you involved unless you
>> are interested.
>
>
> I will happily engage in a philosophical debate with you. I think its
> the most intriguing of all discussions. Theres are something like 300
> religions on this earth, without any scientific proof. This is one of
> the most interesting aspects of human psycology. And its my beliefe that
> nobody stays clear of this one. Even people who have been raised without
> religion, are strongly affected by it, indirectly, through the laws, the
> myths, the tales and the history and culture. Religions have without a
> doubt strongly affected each and everyone of us, either we like to admit
> it or not. I do not like to admit it. I would give my right hand to know
> what it would feel like to grow up, totally uninfluenced by religion,
> just to see what I would be like then. Its my absolutely firm beliefe,
> that I would have been a better man without religion, and that my
> thoughts would have been lighter, and that my science would have been
> better. And most important of all, I think that my beliefe in fellow
> human beeings would have been stronger. Now I must force what comes
> natural to people unburdened by religious philosophies. This is what I
> belive.

Ok then. Quite possibly lets have a good discussion then. Hopefully this
won't be like my last one. (wasn't here, but elsewhere)

>> The way I see it, Catholics were spread out too thinnly and too
>> quickly, spreading across the masses that would join Catholics for the
>> historical benifits, including protection of the Pope (he was a very
>> powerful figure in the 1000s-1500s).
>
> I am not deeply familiar with the history of catholism. My interest
> field is the human psyche, espesially my own, but also that of my fellow
> man. I have never could comprehended my fellow beeings, and espesially
> not christians, or even religious people at large. When it comes to
> religion the "Faq Attack" on "The Sage" home page is what comes closest
> to my own understandings.

I think History and the actions of people give good reasons for the
human psyche, why people believe in religions, and weather or not it is
valid. Again, I am inclined to say, most people in the Catholic religion
are not religious at all, but would rather take the name of Catholic for
personal benifit. Or whatever other religion you have for that matter.

For the basics, After Jesus rose into heaven (or died if you don't
believe he did) Paul spread the word of Jesus thoughout the Roman
Empire. At the same time, a strain fell south toward Africa and Persia,
which would hold out to become the roots of Islam. Each group had their
own interpretation, and soon, the message of Catholics was lost in
confusion. In this confusion, one strain declared themselves absolute,
and declared those who didn't believe exactly what they did as incorrect
and heritics.

On a sidenote, one of the more famous of these Heritics included the
belief in the Gospel of James, the twin brother of Jesus. Which is true
was lost in the mass of confusion after Paul, though the Church today
declares James never existed.

Then Romans fell, Muslims and Germanic tribes took over for a bit.
Crusades hit muslims back (and offensive strikes, etc) and Catholics
started changing their holidays to fit local pagans. I believe at this
point, these were harmless and did not effect any doctorines, as Monks
have already started to transcript the bible many times over. Some
changes include, the cellebration of Christmas at the same time as the
pegan "Solctice" celebration. (dang it, i forgot how to spell)

>> In addition, our Bible has been translated too many times to count,
>> each time loosing the language of the message, and different "Bibles",
>> each with contradictions.
>
> Yes. Much likely.
>
>> However, I hold the beliefs firm, call it instinct cause I have
>> nothing else to prove it by. I see God in what I do, and what I say,
>> and though others as well. Proof enough for me to stay by my religion.
>
>
> I see in nature, an intelligence and complexity greater than I can
> comprehend. When I walk in the mountains outside my house, I can feel
> awe. I can picture something greater. When I see the pictures of jews
> graves, from the holocoast, I can see something smaller, something dark.

The root of this belief of Good Vs Evil can be traced to one of the
first religions (now extinct) Zorroastrinism. Heaven/Hell ideas started
here, and started in what is now present-day Iraq, around 2000 BC.
However, the question is, is it human nature to sense these things? Or
was it the influence of Zorroastrinism that causes us to think in this way?

> Neihter of it makes any sense to me. If there really was a God. Who am I
> to define it ? I dont even know how to properly define myself. Nobody,
> obviosly know how to define a God. Because even if there was one, or
> many, we wouldnt know how to propperly define them. So the way I see it
> "we", or humans belive in something that we do not know what is, or
> isnt.

The Catholic Church puts it in this way. You cannot describe God with
any human language just as you cannot describe humans with a cricket's
churp.

> This I have nothing against. What I am against is lying and
> pretending that we know, and then try to force the things we do not know
> into the heads of small children that cannot protect themself, and who
> are naturally open to grownups, because they need grownups in order to
> survive.

The problem I have, is the corruption that existed in the past. It isn't
Jesus who I am listening too, it is a guy who claims to have Jesus's
word written down, exactly perfect, and infallible. However, I do
believe that such a person exists, but when I meet him, I also believe
that I will not be able to trust this person, with all the chaos in the
world today. Again, heritics of which you describe do exist, and I must
be cautious not to fall into the trap of the heritic.

But, how do I believe a true "englightened" person exists? To put it
simply, I have seen such a person before. It was one of my grandmother's
friends, when I was little. She could be put off as crazy if i just gave
descriptions, but the feeling when you were close to her...

Well, to the crazy parts:
When I was young, my parents brought me to a holy spring in Pensylvania,
and brought this lady with us. It was her idea BTW. And when we were
walking towards the spring and cave, she fell into a trance, and pointed
to a branch. I do not remember exactly what was said, but it was like
"Take Care of the Children" or something like that. My mother told me
that it was Mary who was talking though her, and that the branch she was
pointing to had Mary on it.

Another thing when I was young. My sister swares to me, she saw the
statue of Mary behind our school cry. And not just any cry, she cried
with tears of blood. When I later investigated this incident, I learned
reports of it happened all over the world in the past.

Finally, when My grandmother had heart surgery before she died, the lady
  I explained earlier also fell into a trance. It was an important
surgery, i think a quad-bypass and other stuff that my grandma wasn't
supposed to survive very long afterwards. During the surgery, my
grandmother also saw the lady, and the lady also saw my grandmother.
Both sides, separated, and Mary was with them both. I heard it
second-hand from my mother, who visited both of them.

Well, that is my proof for believing in Catholisism. Strange things, I
do not expect you to believe them, but possibly you can offer some
reasonable explanations of these.

>> Ahh crap, I blabbered again. Try to remind me not to respond. I don't
>> feel like taking/sending any flames this week.
>
>
> I dont feel like you are blabbering. In fact, I am much interessted to
> know about the happenings that brought you to belive in a religion. If
> you know, that is. I think it would be very interessting to talk with
> someone who can argue sensible, about why their are belivers. Because I
> really like to understand how they can support their belives, and
> sometimes even fight to support it, when it (to me) seems it is founded
> in blind faith. And contraindicatied in so many millions of ways. Even
> by pure logic.
>
> However. I am also a contradictory man. Betov said it best.

Well, there they are. Take them, or leave them. (most people leave them
btw :)

Percival

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