Re: Is Microsoft anti-GPL ?

From: Robert Redelmeier (redelm_at_ev1.net.invalid)
Date: 12/13/04 

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:24:06 GMT

pH <high@cidity.level> wrote:
> (iow, why does / should "menuing system" imply "limited choice",
> when your choices are obviously limited to what's available in
> the first place, and there's nothing which states that "what's
> available" can't be placed in / accessed from, a menu)

Because menus are relatively hard to build, and have to be
navigated level by level. Many important (but lesser used
or expert) pgms are left off. From a stock MS-Windows install,
how to you navigate to `RegEdit` or `ipconfig`?

I find navigating menus tedious in the extreme. One mouse click
takes me about as much effort a typing a word or three. Yet
the ratio imposed by GUIs is about one click for every UNIX letter.

> Featuritis is a common problem, regardless of UI.

Ah, but unused / unwanted features on a CLI do not cause
nearly as much trouble. They don't clutter menus / displays.

> the stuff I always liked to call "DeeCees". (which stands for
> Digital Clocks. When it became common for electronics to contain

I like these features. I no longer wear a watch, mostly
because my pager and now cellphone function as a pocket watch.

>>2) GUIs are bloated bugfests.
> Certainly not because they have to be, but that would
> describe most software these days anyway.

With 1280x1024x32bpp, the framebuffer is 5 MB. Much of this
is manipulated with the CPU, so blows caches. Some ops can
be done by the GPU but coding the videodrivers is tricky
and often leads to subtle conditions causing lockup.

> But----can your hardware operate in both AN and APA mode(s)
> simultaneously?

No, I switch in about 1 second.

> iconnnt understand the difference between having to learn
> what some button with a little picture on it does, and what
> some (equally) cryptic command line argument is needed to
> perform some desired operation.

The first time, the GUI is probably a bit easier to learn. That's
why they're so attractive and successful with newbies. Later it
makes a difference. If I know I want a directory listing by date
`ls -lrt` does it. If I want to use `explorer.exe`, I've got to
navigate to the directory, then click twice on the size column.
Both are do-able, but the second is considerably harder for me.
I expect not for a newbie who is unfamiliar with the tools.

> Most well designed software I've
> been exposed to goes out of its way to accommodate peoples'
> preferences, anyway, and provide keyboard access to most--if
> not every--function, feature and operation the software offers.

Ah, but not very consistantly.

> But anyway... GUIs aren't limited to consisting of just buttons
> with icons. You should see the interface for the audio hardware
> I use. Not only is it a brilliant example of a GUI... anything
> *but* a GUI would be something of a burden to work with.

Some sort of equalizer that people are used to looking at
in a graphical sense? I'm not saying GUIs are useless.
For some data / functions they are better (images).

> Why do I *need* to do a _pipe_, specifically? Keeping in mind
> that this particular feature was most handy in the days of
> single tasking OSii --

With a pipe, programs can be combined and not all functionality
has to be provided by every tool. As an example `du -k / |
sort -n | tail` lists the ten largest directories on the disk.
Lots of very useful pipelines can be built.

> -- why do you consider it feeble? If my " | " needs are
> so... ongoing, or continuous, or whatever... then I might
> suspect that my software of choice is hindering rather than
> helping... maybe...

I'm afraid you simply do not know what you are missing.
Or are unwilling to make the effort to discover.

> I just don't agree with that. I mean... what it all boils
> down to, is preference, after all, and everybody has their own.
> Which means... at some point, the UI designer _must_ make some
> decisions based on compromise (if they're ever to be "finished").
> Which means, of course, with any given implementation... some
> will like it, some won't.

No, there are some hard human factors engineering that has been
ignored. Read some of Bruce Tognazzini. Try clicking in the very
bottom left corner of an MS-Windows `explorer` session. The start
button doesn't come up, you have to move in & up a few pixels.
Why sterilize the edges and corners? To give people RSI ???

> I'm merely pointing out that we (humans) interact with the
> various things in our lives in a manner which... the GUI most
> closely follows. To me, it feels more natural.

Yes, GUIs are seductive. But fundamentally limited, and
I would expect a person interested in ASM to be interested
in unlocking the power of their machine even if that took
considerable effort to learn.

-- Robert

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