Re: this is the time to pray

From: Evenbit (nbaker2328_at_charter.net)
Date: 02/04/05 

Date: 4 Feb 2005 00:30:39 -0800

Beth wrote:
> > Hmm... they both have a spinal column.
>
> Vertibrates...
>
> > They both reside on land (hence four limbs).
>
> "Hence"? Spiders have eight limbs...centipedes have just under a
hundred
> legs...slugs and snails have no legs or arms at all...your logic
ain't
> "following" properly here ;)...

I guess I didn't make myself very clear. I was walking down the "tree"
of decent as I was increasing the resolution of the picture. Since we
had earlier established "vertibrate", then "reside on land" establishes
4 limbs rather than 4 fins. Spiders, centipedes, slugs, and snails are
not vertibrate. So, my logic does indeed follow.

> ...of course, "biased"
> symbiosis in that the animals never really had a "say" in this (what
with,
> you know, not being able to talk :)...

Guess you have never met Mr. Ed - the talking horse. ;-)

>
> Yes; But, in a sense, "natural selection" is one thing...and
"mutation" and
> "evolution" is another..."evolution" works by "natural selection"
BUT,
> indeed, not always the same thing...I've, no doubt, been totally
sloppy in
> my use of language throughout my posts and confused the two
repeatedly, I'm
> sure...

I do not believe you have been sloppy with these terms yet. I probably
said that to keep you from being sloppy later. :) By the way, have
you seen any of my black zebras? We haven't been able to locate any
since the culling of the white ones.

> *Ahem* Galileo threw two balls of the exact same dimensions but
having
> different weight because they were made from different material...the
> purpose being to demonstrate that the pull of gravity is NOT related
to
> their "weights" at all but to "air resistance"...being of the same
shape
> and size, the "air resistance" was the same but the weights were
> different...if gravity had something to with weight, they'd hit the
ground
> at different times...if to do with "air resistance" instead, then
they'd
> hit at the same time...standard scientific principle: "isolate" the
> variable you want to test (that it is the only thing that differs
between
> two experiments)...

Wouldn't air pressure affect the speed of the lighter one causing it to
hit last? You know, the old eureka dude in the bathtub and the
"golden" crown? A better test would be a feather and hammer dropped in
a vacuum to prove that without air resistence, they hit at the same
time no matter what wieght, shape, or size.

>
> And, indeed, they both struck the "observer" at the bottom of the
tower on
> the head at the same time...this was revealled by there being _two_
cartoon
> bumps sticking out the top of his head...no, okay, that last bit was
just a
> crap joke...they hit _the ground_ at the same time, not a
person...but,
> well, I thought I'd add the cautionary note that, in the name of
science,
> it is not acceptable to throw things off heights onto people's heads
:)...

However, when conducting Science {capital "S" signifying how serious we
are about it} from the ALA Treehouse, it _IS_ acceptable to throw
things off heights onto people's heads {especially if they are drinking
the wrong beer}.

> Of what hence thou speakest? Verily, ist thine tongue known yet,
forsooth,
> doth it equal bode tidings strange, good sire...

Huh? :)

>
> > > yourself struck by lightning twice standing in the same place
;)...
> >
> > Actually, it is a myth that it doesn't strike twice in the same
place.
> > Physics actually favors it striking more than once in the same
place.
>
> I know; It was "metaphorical" usage...

I know that you know; It was "rhetorical" usage...

>
> > Otherwise, flouresent and neon lights would not work.
>
> Neon lights work by being struck by lightning twice? How do they
manage
> that? They place the neon light factories in stormy places and fly a
kite
> above the factory directing it to a batch of neon lights? Seems a
pretty
> surreal manfacturing requirement ;)

I was referring to them working as if lit via a spark, like lightning.
Actually neon lights have neon gas in them that emit a color when
excited by the current flowing thru it - but very closely a spark as
well. I guess a true spark (without air or neon or what-have-you to
travel thru) would be an arc lamp: two carbon rods in a vacuum with
high voltage between them...brightest light and truest white light man
can make. Well, okay, GE puts good white phospheros on the inside of
flouresent tubes to glow white when struck by the mostly invisible
radiation from the internal spark, so, I guess I better give them
credit before they sue me.

> For instance, the most obvious unanswered question is "where are the
> intermediate species?"...this is a NON-TRIVIAL question...because
they
> clearly aren't there when we look,

That is a creationist trick. Finding any fossil at all is kind of
rare. Dig just six inches down from your current fossil and you have
travelled maybe 7 million years into the past. What are the chances of
you finding even a few fossils within that six inches. And if you are
lucky...what are the chances of finding a fossil that is anywhere in
the ballpark of being similar to the animal whose fossil you are
currently holding?

The thing is: Creationists want scientists to line-up in the
Smithsonian the skeletons of Adam, his son, his grandson, etc.. all
the way down to a freshly-killed modern-day cadaver just to prove
natural selection. Having an example of every single generation just
simply is not possible. We are EXTREMELY LUCKY to get fossils that we
have. Every time we find an intermediate specimen, they argue "but
where's the examples between that and the other two?" and when we come
up with those, they ask the same damn question again. The thing is,
creationists are focussed on family trees. Family trees are useless to
paleontology. It uses cladograms showing derived characteristics
instead.

> > > Sensible general advice, really...when things get too big or
heavy to
> > > manage, then employ some "outside help" (especially when
> > > pregnant)...
> >
> > It wasn't me! ;-)
>
> Though, I bet not from want of trying, eh? ;)

Was that YOU sneaking into my bed at night? I thought that was a
girraf wanting to produce short-necked offspring. ;-)

Nathan.

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