Re: Linux, X, ld, gcc, linking, shared libraries and stuff

\\o/annabee wrote:

> Je.... flexibility is great, it should be possible to replace much of
> everything, at some point. BUT, theres the issue of confusion. I dont know
> linux, but there seems to be several "window" managers available.

Ayuh.

> How the hell to select one ?

Good question. What I observe is that Gnome seems to be
"prettier", KDE seems more "businesslike". I don't know any
of the others. KDE is the larger package (to my surprise),
but seems much faster than Gnome. (this may be a
"configuration" or "resolution" issue)

If you mean "how to do it", rather than "how to decide"...
ummm, there's a configuration file that determines what
"startx" does, I think, but I'd have to search around to
find it. Once found, it's fairly "obvious" how to switch,
IIRC, but I don't remember details. Normally, it's something
you'd only do once, and then only if you "guessed wrong" on
the initial install...

> I want my linux apps, if I ever rewrite something in
> Linux, to run on Linux. Period. I dont want to educate the users to
> download and install this and that distro, and this and that shell
> (window) manager. That seems just a horrible situation.

Agreed... and I don't think it *is* the situation. Sevag
mentions that some Gnome apps won't run under KDE... I think
they "ought" to... Perhaps we can figure out "why not".

I understand that you can write Windows programs that will
run on win98 but not on XP, or vise versa. If you write the
program "right", and "obey the rules", your program will run
on 98 *or* XP. I suspect we may be encountering a similar
situation here.

> Do Linux entusiast have a faintes clue at how fast even advanced users
> will bail out at even the smallest problem theese days ?

I can see your and Betov's reaction to it. I also observe
that several posters appear to be using it as their
"everyday" OS. Perhaps we're the "less advanced" users... It
seems that some people can install and use Linux with little
trouble, other people have real trouble, and don't like it.
Sorta like some people think RosAsm is great, and some
people think HLA is great. Could it be that the same
"eyeglasses prescription" isn't right for all of us???

> I can guarantie
> you, that any application that isnt able to run and start and work, by 1
> click, will never attract end users in the long run.

Would you settle for a "doubleclick"? Well, you can
configure your window manager (all of 'em? AFAIK, yes.) to
start an app with either a single click or a doubleclick.

> Installing a seperate
> window manager just to try out an app is completly insane.

Agreed. AFAIK, you should be able to choose *a* window
manager, based on your preferences, and run any app under
it. To the extent that this isn't true, "something's wrong",
I think. It *does* happen - an app might ask to dynamically
load a shared library that doesn't exist. A Windows program
might ask to load a .dll that isn't there. Maybe we can have
a "religious war" over whether ".dll Hell" or "Deep in .so
***" is worse. :) In either case, I think if you want to
solve the problem, there's probably a solution. If you
prefer to complain about it, then "... sucks!".

In order to *build* a "Gnome app" - that is, something that
uses the "Gnome Toolkit" - I had to install four or five
other things - in a particular order. (what you've "already
got" depends on which distro, and on choices you made in the
install process, I assume) But I don't need to be running
the Gnome window manager to run 'em. Maybe some of those
other shared libraries *are* required to just run 'em...

One thing I just noticed... Checking into the fact that
Beth's example behaves differently depending on whether you
exit by "press any key" or by "click on the little X up in
the corner"... I noticed that the "gnome example" (NoDot's
version, but derived from Jonathan's book) *doesn't* quit
when you "click on the X" (the existance and location of the
"X to close" is highly configurable - I'm assuming we're
configured "like Windows", approximately). I suggested to
Beth that we *didn't* get an "event" about this, but that
must be wrong. (if I try to quit Netscape composer right
now, I get a "do you want to save" box, so there *must* be a
way to intercept it)

Difficult to compare examples made with a "toolkit" with
examples using "raw Xlib" - the overall "structure" differs
- but I'll try to see what the difference is with these
"quit" situations...

Linux offers a lot of options - maybe more than Windows -
which may be a Good Thing overall, but it *does* increase
the "confusion factor"... I hope ReactOS works out well so
there will be an OS to suit "each" (not "all") of us!

Best,
Frank
.