Re: Linux, X, ld, gcc, linking, shared libraries and stuff

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 07:48:43 +0200
"\\o/annabee" <http://www.TheWannabee.org> wrote:

> På Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:07:13 -0500, skrev NoDot
> <no_dot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>
> >
> > On the subject of networking, is anyone else annoyed by the level of
> > network transparency in Linux. I know it's derived from UNIX, which
> > has to be network transparent, but I find it annoying for a simple
> > desktop. Anyone else agree?
>
> Yes. I dont know Linux, so I cant say much, but _if_ everything _has_
> to be networked, seems anoying, and allmost certainly slow. But I
> assume you could be spesific and work around it if you dont need it ?
> I mean, beeing able to run your desktop on a remote computer, seem to
> me the least useful of all thinkable alternatives.

I think you're way off here. You don't have to install any networking
software if you don't want to. But I also think the X networking stuff,
e.g. running an X session over TCP/IP on a machine on the other end of
the world, isn't useful for most PCs. :-)


> > Well, the frown was because (if I even get it out, and that is a big
> > if) DotOS v1.0 will look like DOS. It'll have infinite
> > extensibility, perfectly able to accept a GUI shell, other FSs, more
> > DDs, and other extensions (hopefully), but it'll be shipped with
> > only a text-mode shell (no GUI) and a minimal system. The text-mode
> > shell will always remain, though, even if a GUI is shipped with
> > later versions (perhaps starting with v2; we'll see how things turn
> > out).

Hey NoDot, maybe if you have implemented some way of GFX hardware
drivers / access method, we can team up...


> How far are you with this Dot-os. Where can we see it ?
>
> > Well, I think keeping the GUI out of the OS is a good idea (though
> > the possibility of one should not be ignored). You could probably
> > swap COMMAND.COM out for another shell and DOS wouldn't have known,
> > correct? I like this way of doing things.
>
> Je.... flexibility is great, it should be possible to replace much of
> everything, at some point. BUT, theres the issue of confusion. I dont
> know linux, but there seems to be several "window" managers available.
> How the hell to select one ? I want my linux apps, if I ever rewrite
> something in Linux, to run on Linux. Period. I dont want to educate
> the users to download and install this and that distro, and this and
> that shell (window) manager. That seems just a horrible situation.

There's 3 things:

- X Windows: Common to everything, always there, you can rely on the API
and all

- The "Window manager": not relevant for your app. It defines e.g. how
the window decorations (titlebar etc.) look and work, possibly how
"cycling" between windows is done, and so on. Many window managers have
helper applets like graphical pagers, "docks", taskbars. But you don't
have to care about it.

- Various libraries and widget sets, like Gtk, Qt, Athena widgets,
whatever. If you depend on stuff from Gtk-1.2.34.2.4.24-alpha, the user
must install exactly that, else your app won't work. Of course most of
the library stuff is upwards compatible, but APIs change fast, so you
have to download and upgrade stuff often, especially if you install
binary packages. This really sucks. IMHO the cause is that the
underlying API, Xlib in this case, is too complicated to use. So
programmers use libraries which build on top of that, to abstract the
abstraction of the driver API which is an abstraction of the hardware.
To make it even easier, these libraries constantly get upgraded,
superceded and abstracted, and I (the user...) have to install new
packages all the time. If the API was _usable_ for programmers,
everything would be fine. It's the same with the Windoze API. Noone uses
it, people use MFC and similar stuff instead. But the APIs of Windows
libraries are more backwards compatible and don't change as fast, which
I think is a big reason for Windows' success...



> Do Linux entusiast have a faintes clue at how fast even advanced users
> will bail out at even the smallest problem theese days ? I can
> guarantie you, that any application that isnt able to run and start
> and work, by 1 click, will never attract end users in the long run.
> Installing a seperate window manager just to try out an app is
> completly insane.

It's not that bad, apps generally don't depend on a window manager, but
on the libraries they use. Except apps written specifically for a WM of
course, like taskbars. But these are installed with the WM.


> >> Beth :)
>
>
> --
> http://TheWannabee.org
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How do i switch from Gnome to KDE ?
    ... This is Linux, a vertable operating system, not ... does this have anything to do with that X Window,i also see Konsole ... what about Networking? ... Look into Samba, it will allow all your machines to network together ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: How do i switch from Gnome to KDE ?
    ... This is Linux, a vertable operating system, not ... does this have anything to do with that X Window,i also see Konsole ... what about Networking? ... But Linux has DVD Burning programs like K3b,will that work in replace ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: How do i switch from Gnome to KDE ?
    ... This is Linux, a vertable operating system, not ... does this have anything to do with that X Window,i also see Konsole ... what about Networking? ... But Linux has DVD Burning programs like K3b,will that work in replace ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: Bit Twister: Is this the dhclient-exit-hooks you were talking about?
    ... It lets you take a screenshot ... See slrn running in the term window? ... Redhat left the linux user community in the lurch awhile back ... She will go for that and then I can get on with the FC5 install that I ...
    (alt.os.linux)
  • Re: Help w/ Not-booting Problem
    ... >No - setting the hostname is one element in the boot process. ... I have had a working system of RedHat Linux 7.2 for several months. ... >external DNS server on an adsl router! ... >You appear to have a networking problem. ...
    (comp.os.linux.misc)