Re: Click...
- From: "snowman" <snowman75@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:14:17 -0400
"Beth" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> No donations of charity money are required this time...truth is, you've
> paid
> what is necessary in your taxes already...
>
huh? I've paid school, water, property and income taxes. Considering
that school water ans property are used by the local government for those
purposes, that leaves income tax. Income tax in Canada is split at the
provincial and federal levels, approx %50 each. Since the local government
provides services such as repairing of roads, policing, health care, etc. I
can expect that it is all used up (and then some).
The federal taxes go towards social programs such as Employment insurance,
social welfare, social healthcare (incl. disaster relief), federal
infrastructure and roads, foreign aid etc.
Considering that here in Canada we give approx 0.3% of GDP towards foreign
aid, then this WOULD have to be increased to deal with the Africa issue.
Unless you are suggesting that we take money from other foreign aid
programs, and push that all into Africa. You seem to brush right over this
in your "plan". Is that your plan?
> As with the Tsunami, they make large promises - which they could deliver -
> while the media watches...but then wholly go back on their promises, come
> up
> short on the promised changes and then return to the status quo...
You might want to read the Red Cross report - it details the over abundance
of donations actually received compared to what was needed. They issued a
request months ago that that NO MORE AID be sent, as no more was required.
>
> They broke their promise...they failed to keep with their plan...
Actually, as per the Red Cross report, they asked countries to STOP SENDING
money and supplies. So your assertion is a half-truth at best, and
misinformed at the least.
>
> When they meet again soon, in Scotland, if millions of voice speak as one,
> then they will be forced to hear it...the G8 have already agreed to,
> again,
> place the issue on the table for discussion...we must speak as ONE VOICE
> so
> that they are in no doubt as to what we require of them...
>
>
> This is NOT charity, your _VOICE_ is all that's required...
>
How about I sing them a song, or perhaps I could recite a poem to them.
I've always been partial to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
> This is NOT politics, it's basic MORALITY: People are dying unnecessarily
> from a man-made artifical disaster that does not need to exist...we could
> stop that...this is what it boils down to...
People throughout history have died unnecessarily. I'm boldly predicting
that far into the future, on all continents people will continue to die
unnecessarily.
And as for your claim that it has nothing to do with politcs, I disagree.
It IS all about politics. It is about class struggles. It is about war,
corruption and mismanagement You and I will not change this.
>
> As Nelson Mandela explains here:
> http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/flash/mandela.swf
>
> ...the idea is three-fold:
>
> 1. Introduce FAIR TRADE; Allow these developing countries to be able to
> trade with others, without unfair tariffs and taxes making it
> impossible...
Fair Trade implies that both sides open markets to each other. Africa has
CHOSEN not to do this, and is currently the most protectionist continent -
with hopes to become even more protectionist. Korea used to be very
protectionist, but when they adopted a more open trade policy, their GDP
exploded. Until the countries of Africa choose to do the same, then there
is not much FAIR TRADE that can be done.
you might want to search google for actual info, not just the pop-star
economics of Africa you seem to believe in.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200506241065.html
>
> 2. CANCEL DEBT; Africa has been a troubled nation...dictators would come,
> borrow vast sums of money that are impossible to repay...and then they
> leave...the country left crippled by that debt...in some cases, the
> "interest" on the debt exceeds what the country can repay...hence, it is
> simply impossible to ever clear the debt...it's a poverty trap with no
> escape...we can afford it...so, cancel the debt and start afresh...with
> the
> FAIR TRADE above and the impossible debt removed, Africa can concentrate
> on
> getting itself out of its situation...
Cancelling debt sounds like a cure all. But what about the countries who
choose to pay their debts? Do they now see their own willingness in the
past to pay for their debts as a stupid mistake? A cancellation of debt
will not cure the corruption, mis-management and war that plagues the
African continent. And without attacking the root causes of poverty, the
cancelled debt will soon be filled again.
> 3. AID; Yes, some more charity aid...but this is to help them begin their
> journey in setting up their businesses and "patching" over the time it
> takes
> before they are truly clear of poverty once and for all...if the above
> FAIR
> TRADE and CANCELLED DEBT are achieved, then this aid money would then
> represent _INVESTMENT_...not more "throw away" money, as the aid we pay
> now
> actually is (it's quite silly...we keep them in poverty with one hand and
> give out aid with the other...if we stop keeping them in poverty, then
> we'd
> not need to supply aid anymore...and all that money we currently
> effectively
> "throw away", fighting our own stupid trade laws, could then be
> recovered -
> if there were no poverty in the world - to be used on our own needs)...
>
What happened to the billions that were raised back in 1985 with the first
Live Aid charities? Do you think that was money well spent? If sending
money has NEVER worked to solve the problem inthe past, then why would it
this time?
You seem to be making some wild and uninformed statements, as if they were
self-evident truths. Almost as if you were repeating someone elses words
without doing a little thinking yourself.
Are you so eager to believe the global economic model that a former rock
star espouses? You really should look into what some of the more academic
economists and historians have to say about the african economic model and
trade, before blindly following the first politically correct sounding
statement that "Sir Bob" utters.
>
> Granted, this "plan" isn't necessarily going to work without "hiccups",
> perhaps...but it'll go a very long way, if not the final "cure" to this
> problem, once and for all...
>
your "plan" as you put it, isn't really a plan at all. It is a collection
of stop gaps, and poorly conceived ideas. It will not stop the problem of
poverty, because it doesnt even address any of the root issues.
> The cost of preventing this CAN be easily afforded by the rich nations
It can also be afforded by the african nations. Take Zimbabwe for instance.
In the last 5 years, they have driven out and burned 95% of the farms and
farmers, initiating a meltdown in GDP and internal foodstores. In the last
year, they have adopted a "clean up harrare" program included a policy to
bulldoze the poorer housing, and unsanctioned businesses, effectively adding
between 150,000 200,000 homeless to their nations statistics.
How will your "plan" change the Mugabe regime's policies? They WONT.
by UN reports, in the last 50 years, there have been 186 coups and 26 wars
in Africa, with more than 7 million people killed. THIS is one of the
major reasons for the poverty, and lack on investment. Africa has been
anything but stable.
> It's a case of spending the money where it does long-term
> _PERMANENT_ good, rather than pointless short-term nothingness that is
> "undone" by our very own hands six months later...
Sending money has NEVER done any long-term good. NEVER. And your "plan"
will NEVER do any long term good.
.
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