Re: The Value of a CS Degree


Chewy509@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> However some of the blame must also go to the employers, as well as the
> institutions putting out fresh untainted workers. By offering lower
> wages (as direct reaction to the number of perceived applicants),

Yes, this is called "supply and demand"...

> people won't get into an industry if they don't see a credible value in
> return for effort.

Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, a graduate with a BSCS could
pretty much count on starting at $28-30K. Someone with a Masters degree
would probably start out in the $32-35K range. Those with a PhD were
typically starting out at $45-50K. Then the internet boom came along. I
remember reading a poster at school (posted by the engineering club)
that said "Electrical Engineers make $50K to start!" (This was around
1996-7, IIRC). I remember telling some of my classes how unrealistic
this was and that the students shouldn't get their hopes up too high
once they graduated (I was talking to a senior level class at the
time). That spring, when they graduated, about half of those CS majors
I addressed (many of them little better than HTML programmers) were
reporting starting salaries well above $50K. It was crazy.


> In some fields, entry level positions (level 1 and 2
> helpdesk come to mind) are being offered lower wages than cleaners
> positions, or even working fulltime at MacDonalds. (I know one guy who
> is getting better money as an admin clerk for a tech company, than he
> was working as a senior tech for the same company).

Yes, entry level positions *should* be offered lower wages. Forgive me,
but the years 1996-2001 were an extreme *abberation*. No way should
those fresh graduates have been paid the stratospheric salaries they
were getting.

>
>
> PS. Just remember Randy, a lot of those so-called programmers during
> the bubble knew nothing more that HTML and a bare level of javascript,

Especially those who only knew HTML or Javascript.

> learnt at a 6 week community college course... actual numbers I dare
> say of actual CS grad's only makes up a small proportion of the total
> number.

And I'm talking about 4-year students, not tech school or community
college students. :-(

First of all, let me say that I'm very happy to be well compensated in
the new position I've taken :-). OTOH, I remember back in 2000 seeing
students with a BSCS getting a higher salary than I was making with 20
years experience at the time. More power to those kids for pulling it
off, but it was totally absurd. The companies were paying *way too
much* for programmers with no experience. The bad news is, it brought
the whole industry down. The lack of experience in many of these
high-paid "programmers" gave the profession a black eye, from which it
has yet to recover.

In 2001, salaries dropped about 25% for those who were lucky enough to
find work. For people with experience, salaries have recovered a bit,
but I think the days when a BSCS and HTML programming experience
guaranteed you an $85K starting salary are long gone. Especially when
you can find a lot of engineers with 10-20 years experience willing to
take those jobs now.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

.

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