Re: Why I stop attacking HLA

"randyhyde@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" wrote:
> Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> > >
> > > Create a set of "addition", "subtraction", and "multiplication" tables.
> > > Read the value "n" from the user, and produce an n x n table for each
> > > of these problems (using add, sub, and intmul). Based on their
> > > C/Java/Pascal/whatever knowledge, the logic is fairly trivial. With
> > > about four or five machine instructions, a few variable declarations,
> > > and a brief examination of AoA Ch2, they can do this.

> If you don't understand how one might write this little problem, then
> you're missing the necessary prerequisites. I suggest you take a
> programming course in C before trying to act like you know what you're
> talking about around here. :-)

Do you call the above a specification for a software project? Then I
understand why it takes weeks for the students to implement it. They
need the time to clarify what they have to do and not to learn how
they can do it. I really want to implement it to see why HLL constructs
are an advantage, so please give the complete specification:

What is the input to the program (one integer in the range from .. to ..?).
Is the input read from the keyboard or from a file? Is there a fixed name
for the file or has the filename to be read first (from the keyboard or
from an other file?). What exactly has to be computed? What is the
output of the program? How has the output to be formatted? Where has
the output be written to (screen or file, which name has the file)?

Or better post source code of the solution, so I can extract the
specification myself.



> > > Again, you're confusing a discussion of what the flag *are* with a
> > > decent knowlege of how someone would use these flags.
> >
> > Before they can use them, they have to know what they are.
>
> And learning all that takes time. Precisely my point.

Yes all together less then five minutes.


> > > Well, right off the bat you're assuming they know what a flip-flop is.
> > > Big mistake.
> >
> > If I had assumed that they know what a FlipFlop is, I hadn't explained
> > what a FlipFlop is: a FlipFlop is a hardware circuit which can store
> > a single bit
>
> Sure. For example:
> http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Windows/HTML/DigitalDesigna4.html#6293

No, they don't need to know how a FlipFlop is implemented it is sufficient
if they know for what and how a FlipFlop is used. They also don't need
to know how the div instruction actual is implemented in the CPU, it
is sufficient if they know what the div instruction does.

BTW, how long is this web page online? Did you never get a reply
that figure 3.28 and 3.29 can't work with the FlipFlop shown in
figure 3.26?



Now let's summarize the rest of your posting in a few words:

When in the USA university students start an assembly course, they haven't
any knowledge about

- bit, byte
- most significant
- binary representation of numbers, signed and unsigned numbers, two's complement
- that a program is executed by the processor as a sequence of CPU instructions


They have learned C but they

- think, {int i=1; while (i++);} is an endless loop
- don't know what "goto xyz;" means


And they are not able to understand (or willing to notice) simple
facts if they are not (at the same time) are also told, why this facts
later are useful/necessary for assembly programming.


I really hope things doesn't get so worse here in Germany too, when
we have to switch from Diplom to Bachelor/Master in the next years.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Why I stop attacking HLA
    ... > about four or five machine instructions, a few variable declarations, ... If I had assumed that they know what a FlipFlop is, ... set if there is an overflow for unsigned operands, ... What has it to do with assembly programming that you are called "Randy"? ...
    (alt.lang.asm)
  • Re: Why I stop attacking HLA
    ... > The only problem is that you cannot give substantial assignments during ... > instructions to do this. ... There are 4 FlipFlops (a FlipFlop is a hardware circuit which can store ... Even if somebody knows nothing about programming at all, ...
    (alt.lang.asm)
  • Re: "Mastering C Pointers"....
    ... A program is a stream of instructions (pretend they ... to store a word from a CPU register to memory. ... All the instructions only work on CPU registers. ... the programming world, which makes it very hard for novices. ...
    (comp.lang.c)
  • Re: question about tasks, multithreading and multi-cpu machines
    ... instructions ... then the sequence is really a sequence and I'm talking ... I would like to have seen Ada 2005 address parallel programming better, ... In addition to lightweight concurrent statements, ...
    (comp.lang.ada)
  • Re: Trivia Question
    ... This is what I meant by "ignorance". ... people's *existing* HLL knowledge to learn assembly language programming? ... Which I had such an assembler when starting with Delphi. ... After working with the needed instructions some times, repleatly, they tend to stick around in your memory. ...
    (alt.lang.asm)