Re: ASM noob - couple of questions


Betov wrote:
"JGCASEY" <jgkjcasey@xxxxxxxxxxxx> écrivait news:1141851160.575427.227950
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

MASM and RosASM require M$ to run.

I prefer the syntax of NASM and FASM.
The *major* problem is a lack of
suitable tutorials for beginners when it
comes to Windows programming.

When you talk of "tutorials for beginners", if you mean something
like Pdf BlaBla, you are out of the subject. In this area, we do
not need any such thing, but, what we rather call "Win32Asm Demos"


As I mention below I like the book form. A book
can have Win32Asm Demos just as they had DOS demos.

The ideal is to learn by simply adding and editing
some kind of program shell. For example in DOS you
had the .COM and .EXE shell. In Windows I guess a
shell for a Window and another for a Dialog based
program.


----------------
The Iczelions Tutorials (Demos, in fact...) have been ported to
almost all Assemblers around. RosAsm also offers Test Departement
Demos, and many other similar materials, that are all one may need
for Win32 Assembly.


Test Department Demos are good. And I have been working
my way through the Iczelion tuts while learning how to
read MASM and translate to FASM. It takes time to have
to learn MASMs high level stuff I never used in DOS.

----------------
And, _of course_, when you want to do something, and fail to find
out a ready to use Demo... you have to do the pionner work...


RosAsm is very self contained but I found
its tutorials irritating to say the least

??? Which one ? The Visual Tuts ?


Yes. I tried to cut and paste out of the silly RosAsm
Tut window but it wouldn't let me. Then I tried to
manually copy it into notepad to make an easy to read
tutorial but it was too tedious.

The other thing I dislike is the editors lack of a scroll
bar to move through the text and indicate my current
position in the text. The more alike editors are the
lower the learning curve.

----------------
If yes,... yes, i also thing they require more re-work.
Time and volunteers hands are the only problems, as this
kind of Tutorials takes an incredible long and hard time
to develop...


Yes I understand that. Although properly done a dynamic
teaching aid might work, at least to get someone started,
I personally like it in book form that I can peruse,
skip bits, and use as an easy reference. Like the books
that taught me assembler in the DOS environment. I can
just pull a book off the shelf and flip within seconds
to the part of interest.

For the simple programs I have written I have never
used a debugger or disassembler. I debug by printing
variables and putting in pauses and by plain looking
at the source code and using a bit of logic.


-----------------
and its syntax very idiosyncratic


What does this mean?


idiosyncrasique ?

Deviating from the customary way of doing things.

Not meant as a criticism as such, just extra things to
learn and unlearn later when using another assembler.

There are some things I like such as appending the
api name to the library name, but this will not
translate to another assembler.

call 'Kernel32.ExitProcess' &NULL

I just had another look at your source code from
the Visual Tuts and I think it was the use of
square brackets in the macros, equates data that
threw me. Maybe I was a bit hasty in my comments.

--------------------
and it
lacks the flexibility of the others to
program different OS like Linux.

It is Win32 Specific. How could it offer an integrated
source level debugger, a two-clicks disassembler re-
Assembler, and all of the integrated tool... and be
usable with several OSes?


Clearly for me a limitation. My application is for Linux
and at the moment I am learning how to program it via C.
I had intended learning Win32 with RosAsm despite the
funny Visual Tuts but then decided to do it the harder
way with FASM as I could use it with Linux later.


----------------------
There isn't any good ASM *complete* sources
for programming Windows which requires the
use of API's and DirectX etc to do much.

If you like to write this...good luck...

:))


As a Win32 novice I can't write it, I need it :)

I wonder what Linux uses instead of DirectX ?


-----------------------
For DirectX, all of the wishable Demos and Applications
are available.

Scattered all over the place and requiring a knowledge
of DirectX to decipher which if you had you wouldn't
need the demos in the first place.


------------------------
Thus you need to be able to translate from
any C++ tutorials you might find because
there isn't much in assembler for the novice

RosAsm Disassembler is quite good at porting C and C++
Demos to Assembly, when they are really missing, but
for the majority of stuffs there are existing Demos:
A bit of search is often time faster than re-inventing
the wheel.

Demos require prior knowledge. Demo *and* explanations
for a beginner are what I am talking about. Once you
get up to speed I am sure the Demos are fine but this
is about the how to get up to speed.

As I wrote it can be done but it will require a lot
of spare time and tedious searching for information
as it is not contained in a simple "Teach yourself
Win32 Assembler and DirectX etc" along with some nice
shell programs.

Anyone can learn assembler given time and effort
but it is a long and hard road compared with say
getting a VB program up and running.

--
JC

.

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