Re: ASM noob - couple of questions

"JGCASEY" <jgkjcasey@xxxxxxxxxxxx> écrivait news:1141858904.042227.319340
@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

As I mention below I like the book form.

Then, feel free to execute your book.

:)

The ideal is to learn by simply adding and editing
some kind of program shell. For example in DOS you
had the .COM and .EXE shell. In Windows I guess a
shell for a Window and another for a Dialog based
program.

Yes.


Test Department Demos are good. And I have been working
my way through the Iczelion tuts while learning how to
read MASM and translate to FASM. It takes time to have
to learn MASMs high level stuff I never used in DOS.

Simpler and faster, is to use a Disassembler, than to port
from MASM to Assembly.


??? Which one ? The Visual Tuts ?


Yes. I tried to cut and paste out of the silly RosAsm
Tut window but it wouldn't let me. Then I tried to
manually copy it into notepad to make an easy to read
tutorial but it was too tedious.

You seem to not have understood that these Visual Tuts
can be used in two ways. If you load the Tut itself in
RosAsm, you can do whatever you like with it.


The other thing I dislike is the editors lack of a scroll
bar to move through the text and indicate my current
position in the text. The more alike editors are the
lower the learning curve.

You seem to have missed the [Configuration] Tab.


Yes I understand that. Although properly done a dynamic
teaching aid might work, at least to get someone started,
I personally like it in book form that I can peruse,
skip bits, and use as an easy reference. Like the books
that taught me assembler in the DOS environment. I can
just pull a book off the shelf and flip within seconds
to the part of interest.

Simpler and faster is to load a Demo, or to Click upon
[New]...


For the simple programs I have written I have never
used a debugger or disassembler. I debug by printing
variables and putting in pauses and by plain looking
at the source code and using a bit of logic.

So do i, because i am used to DOS programming methods,
even though the evident and massive help of the integrated
debugger has changed a lot the way i actually work.


and its syntax very idiosyncratic


What does this mean?


idiosyncrasique ?

Deviating from the customary way of doing things.

Not meant as a criticism as such, just extra things to
learn and unlearn later when using another assembler.

There are some things I like such as appending the
api name to the library name, but this will not
translate to another assembler.

call 'Kernel32.ExitProcess' &NULL

The real advantage of this convention, i that the
underlying method makes us free from any Proto. In
other words, calling for a DLL Function is nothing
else but writing this.

Also, once done, at least, _once_, the user is allowed
to ommit the DLL Name, so that another call can be as
simple as:

call 'ExitProcess' &NULL


I just had another look at your source code from
the Visual Tuts and I think it was the use of
square brackets in the macros, equates data that
threw me. Maybe I was a bit hasty in my comments.

The RosAsm syntax is somewhat "Unified". That is,
everything that is not pure Code, is given inside
square brackets, and shown in a specific color.


It is Win32 Specific. How could it offer an integrated
source level debugger, a two-clicks disassembler re-
Assembler, and all of the integrated tool... and be
usable with several OSes?


Clearly for me a limitation. My application is for Linux
and at the moment I am learning how to program it via C.
I had intended learning Win32 with RosAsm despite the
funny Visual Tuts but then decided to do it the harder
way with FASM as I could use it with Linux later.

Good choice, but you will never learn anything of Assembly
by linking Asm Chunks to C... And as long as Linux Assembly
do not, so to say, exist...


I wonder what Linux uses instead of DirectX ?

I don't know. Ask Chuck or Frank.


For DirectX, all of the wishable Demos and Applications
are available.

Scattered all over the place and requiring a knowledge
of DirectX to decipher which if you had you wouldn't
need the demos in the first place.

Most games are DX.

There are 3 DX Games at RosAsm Users Demos Page.


Demos require prior knowledge. Demo *and* explanations
for a beginner are what I am talking about. Once you
get up to speed I am sure the Demos are fine but this
is about the how to get up to speed.

As I wrote it can be done but it will require a lot
of spare time and tedious searching for information
as it is not contained in a simple "Teach yourself
Win32 Assembler and DirectX etc" along with some nice
shell programs.

Anyone can learn assembler given time and effort
but it is a long and hard road compared with say
getting a VB program up and running.

We all agrea on the point that, in Win32 Assembly, around
80% ofthe time is wasted at searching the OS infos. Not on
the fault of Assembly, and not on my fault. Providing all
you could wish to be given, for making the first steps
easier, represents tons of work. The volunteers are few
and the quantity of work is... HUGE.


Betov.

< http://rosasm.org >







.

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