Re: When caveman Uhg invented fire

Dragontamer wrote:

You don't need to destroy other people's means of living to
be a business owner.

Be a farmer for example. Make enough food for yourself, and sell some
so you can pay your taxes, phone bills, and whatever other luxury items
you need.

True, there are endeavours that are less damaging to others, but the
trap of the system exists even there. Had a bad season and can't pay
your taxes? Can't pay the lease on the land? You're outta there.
Besides that, starting a farm requires a great deal of starting
capital, and skill. Something most people don't start out with.

And we are also trapped to live with gravity. That doesn't stop us from
jumping
to the moon.

You can't escape the gravity of a black hole.

Slaves don't got a choice in their life.

That used to be the way. Welcome the new slave. One who is allowed
little choices and remains content in the belief of having choice.


Any "slave" can become the master. That by very definition, makes them
not a slave, but equal to their master.

The gem of Capitalism. Little masters can become big masters, and vice
versa. It's all in the struggle to own everything.


I take it that you've never heard of the Red Cross?

Quite the contrary for them. It is illegal for the Red Cross to advance
their
ownership. Seem to do quite well as an organization though.

Yes, there are some anomalies. But this Red Cross, and other charities
of this sort shouldn't even have a need exist. They are mere band-aids
on the cancer of the system.


It was their choice to make a family. They live with their choices. Of
course
we live with our choices... else we wouldn't be living. With exception
of maybe
rape victims, you have a choice whether you want a family or not, but
that is a
crime issue.

A choice made within the confines of the system. One shouldn't have to
sell his soul to have a family.

Anyway, if you really want to go into poverty and live as a bum the
rest of your
life, it is your choice. Whats so wrong with being a bum? Stray away
from alcohol
and drugs, and wander around and be friendly to people, can't be too
bad. Jack
London did it for a good period of his life.

Who said I wanted to be in poverty? If that was the case I would've
left long ago.

Anyway, alternatives:

1. Become a business owner

A "little master" with ambition of becoming a "big master" This is not
an alternative, this is full immersion into the system.

1.5 Make a public-works company, build roads, hospitals, etc. etc.
Rent-a-cop for neighborhoods, etc. etc.

Same as above.

2. Create non-profit organization.

Band-aid.

3. Create a new society, a commune if you will, like the Amish but
"better"

A little better, but it has problems. You still need capital, a great
deal of it if you want a better society with no disdain for technology
and progress. Once the land is secured to be shared by all the
members, the whole world does not subscribe to the same way of life, so
you have to provide some way of "protecting" what you have built.

If you have to protect what you have built from others who may take it
from you forcibly to increase their own ownership, then you are still
trapped in the system, no matter where you go.

4. Be a bum. Aka: Explore the world PS: hide from the police.

Not my cup of tea. I like being productive.

5. Be a farmer.

Same as #1

6. Become a religious leader.

Yikes!

7. Join the army

Preposterous! That's not an alternative, that's becoming a part of the
weapon system designed to protect and expand ownership of "big
masters."
They get to point you in any direction and say "kill" and you must,
like an obedient dog.


8. Be one of those "survivors". Find a deserted island, and make it
your home.

Can you point to me to any piece of land that is not claimed by
someone? The closest thing to this that I know of is a guy who owns an
abandoned oil rig just outside national influence zones. Still, you
make it sound easier than it is.

Some people do this for years at a time for the hell of it. The forests
work well
also.

It may be if you want to be a hermit.

9. Join a non-profit organization
10. Work for the government. Be a teacher, firefighter, policeman, etc.
etc.

....You can be a part of any subgroup within the system. Some less
damaging than others, but you're still trapped in it.


It is called primary elections. Some 12 possible candidates out
there right now, at least, for both parties.

And they all look exactly the same. You can vote for the left arm of
the body or the right arm, they're still attached to the same body.


Do you have plans for a better system? Then make one.

A better system will only work if everybody in the world subscribes to
it. For it to even have a chance to happen, a majority have to be
discontent. However, the latest system of creating "little masters"
assures that most will be content at any given time. There is no
escaping the system.

Amish/Mennonites are trapped in the same system, though to a lesser
extent. But forget about joining them, these are closed societies who
don't value advancement. Their general philosophy is a good one, just
eliminate the religion, discard their disdain for technology and expand
influence beyond crops and homes to all things and you got an almost
perfect society.

Then get your friends, and convince them to join you.

Whats his name convinced some 50 people to commit suicide with him.

And I bet it is a lot easier to convince 50 people to come to a better
society
than it is to convince the same 50 people to commit suicide with you.

The Amish had to start somewhere. It isn't as if they just appeared out
of the blue one day.

"Master Status"???

Then charge him less. Goodness. Don't make a profit if you don't want
to.

I'd like to charge nothing. What then? Give up my home? Food? Van?
I don't want to give up any of the "luxuries" that I have worked for.
So I *have* to charge for what I do.
Do you get the notion of "trap"?

As for the other guy: he'll live. Hershey went bankrupt like, 12 times
before
making his chocolate company.

That one had to really work the system. I wonder how many people's
invstments (and lives) he ruined during the 12 times he went bankrupt?
You'll say it's choices we make, and that is true. We make those
choices in accordance to the system we are trapped in.

And that was back when there were true
"master vs slave" relationships, lack of minimum wages, no social
security,
a crap stock market, no insurance on your banks, no medicare, etc. etc.


You're speaking as someone who lives in a nation that has great
ownership... one of the "big masters" in the world. Tell me, how many
of the billions on this planet have the guarantee of minimum wage (or
even employment for that matter!)? How many live with social security?
A good stock market? insurance? medecine? etc etc?

All of these exists in your nation because nations also work on the
same principle of expansion of ownership, at the cost of other nations.
In accordance to the system, the tide will change in the future.
Soon, you may lose all those things as other nations gain more
ownership than yours... But you won't complain, choices, right?


Such as Hershey, who got rid of bulldozers and hired 40 men in their
place
during the great depression?

A nice guy comes along during what? A disaster that should't even
happen. A hiccup in a series of bad choices our ancestors made when
they designed the system. Such charities, as I've mentioned are just a
band-aid on a rotten wound.


Or Carnegie who gave away some $350,695,653 before he died?
(and then the last few dozen million when he died)


Don't know the story on that one, but I would bet he shattered a lot of
lives making that money in the first place. Giving it back is a small
consolation. Perhaps he had an epiphany and realized the master/slave
relationship and decided to do something about it.

Again, I dislike your "master vs slave" analogy. You assume "slaves"
have no choice.
And if slaves do have a choice, they aren't slaves by a long shot :-p

Anyway, I point again to the alternatives at the top of my post, most
of this is covered
there.

--Dragontamer

The basis and full description of the trap is here:
In this system, you either live with luxuries and exploit the full
system, or you try to exit the system completely in whatever feeble
gesture: joining a non-profit org., etc. but still being trapped in
it's gravity.

Right now, a person has these choices:

1. Live within the system, fully immersed, with some vacation out of
it.
- most people do this.

2. Live in the shadow of the system:
- detached as far as you can go, but it still looms above you like a
giant hammer.
Charities and detached societies on this block.

3. Give up the system entierly
- live as a bum or hermit who has no desire to be productive.

4. die.

None of these choices are entierly appealing for me as the only real
exit is #4 and that will come in time anyway. So I fall into #1 with
the realization that there is no adequate alternative. I use my hobby
as a vacation out of it. A vicious non-compromising animal by day, a
human by night... a part-time human.

-sevag.k
www.geocities.com/kahlinor

.

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