Re: pause simple but usefull

På Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:08:52 +0100, skrev Robert Redelmeier <redelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:



No. The mathematician who thinks his own checking suffices
is either arrogant or ignorant. Checking is one of those
activities (like dentistry) where perspective/objectivity
count as much as competence.

I dont understand what you mean. But I know that if there
is a bug in my code, that it is found _straight_ ahead. I
am looking at it. I just have to look closer.

IN turn, I do not understand what you are trying to say.

I am trying to say, I know where the bugs are. And that I can fix them. This is the majority of the motivation in finding and fixing it.

Someone else may find that bug easier and quicker than you.

Sure. Of course. But what has that todo with HLL vs asm?

"With enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" [Torvalds]

I am trying to say _exactly_ what he says. But he just forgot to say that you will not find the fishes heart on the surface of the fish. You need to look inside.


Thats what I ment. I do not have to speculate if it located
in code I did not write and does not have access to, which
possibility kind of kills the fun of searching for it.

This sounds like an argument for independence. The world is
interdependant. Furthermore, the independence of ASM is an illusion:
you are still dependant on the OS and its' many layers.

Yes, I am dependent on the OS. But I can have immidiate control over the things _I_ write.

And on
an assembler (excluding gas) that is far more likely to be buggy
than a C compiler that sees much heavier use (hence bug reports).


Even if you write _all_ your own code, it still contains bugs.

Of course.

More if you don't have other people finding and squashing them.

Yes, sure. But like you say, we CAN call to libraries in asm as well.
So this doesnt belong in the discussion. I am talking of course only about the code I write.

I am not arguing for one man changing the world alone. Or a few. I am of course speaking in the context of if more people would do asm and work together on it, this would safe time for them, and for their users.

The final point is far more important. For 90% of the apps I check out and test, I spend more time installing them then using them. (The latest tools I can't even install..). Close to everyone comes in the same weird and slow installer package, which is *not* needed. So this means that sloppyness multiplies, and for no apparent reason. It is quite simple to make an app run correctly from a single directory, without ever toughing the registry and ect.

Sloppyness multiply. And why? Because of course, it is SO AWKARD to use the various HLLs that they do not want to spend the extra time saving the users from trouble.

Try to find out, like Beth once did, what 1 seconds of wasted usertime, becomes when multiplied by the number of windows users (several 100 milion users). Then you will see the real cost of this awkwardness, that is pushed onto the users. Fixing this problem for any app, is in asm a matter of a few hours of work. Espesially for a team. And then you will have fixed it for all times.

Now try to imagine we download and install, something like may 10-100 apps a year, with updates and etc, and each spend from 10 seconds to several minutes just to install, some even spend the same amount of time to unistall. Compare to an asm app, that comes in a zip, and all you need to do to uninstall it is to delete the containg folder and zip.


-- Robert
.

Relevant Pages

  • Regressing MDAC Version
    ... I'm fixing a bug in our app that occurs only when a lower version of ... MDAC is installed. ... install an earlier version of MDAC on a machine that already has 2.8 ...
    (microsoft.public.sqlserver.setup)
  • Re: ClickOnce Nightmares
    ... your app need to install the settings. ... LAN) you could create a logon script that will automatically install the ... DownloadOptions options, ServerInformation& serverInformation) ... FileAccess access, Boolean asyncHint) ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.framework)
  • Re: bad experience with Suse 9.1 on Inspiron 8200
    ... > it is an M$ bug, such technicalities are irrelevant to the end user. ... :-) Windows has ... work as long as they work, trying to install a nitrous ... Linux are at least a *little* bit curious about how their computer works ...
    (alt.os.linux.suse)
  • Re: Saving Back-End Data As mdf
    ... complete code of a VB.NET console app. ... It's just an example to illustrate how a connection string is used. ... so it doesn't appear to be a problem with how or what I install. ... you access to the Microsoft Office Online Beta site'. ...
    (microsoft.public.access.formscoding)
  • DMA[2005-0103a] - William LeFebvre "top" format string vulnerability
    ... Over four years later the vulnerability ... Recently LeFebvre was notified about the bug ... I'm going to assume that top needs to run setuid to root, ... install top setuid root. ...
    (Bugtraq)