Re: c.l.c wiki update


In article <pan.2006.01.23.22.02.06.999874@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Netocrat <netocrat@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:16:11 +0000, Michael Wojcik wrote:
> > In article <pan.2006.01.21.06.00.50.382144@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Netocrat
> > <netocrat@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>
> >> The reason I think it's likely to be most acceptable is that it was
> >> developed by the founders of the language. Someone with a mind to
> >> architect a programming language as successful as C is likely to make a
> >> good job of an accompanying style.
> >
> > I'm not going to advocate for or against a particular style here, but
> > this argument seems very weak to me. I don't see any evidence to
> > support the thesis that a language designer is necessarily interested in
> > style in general.
>
> I was considering C more specifically than that.

Fair enough. However:

> I've encountered many
> comments on the white book, none of them negative much beyond "it's
> probably not so appropriate for total beginners" or "it's very condensed
> and requires much consideration". In particular, I've never encountered a
> contradiction of the claim that - and have fairly often encountered the
> claim itself - the book is elegant in its concise expression of C idiom.

Well, we don't know how representative your sample is, but let's
assume that there's some popular consensus that the "expression of
C idiom", as you put it, in K&R is "elegant".

> "Elegant" and "idiom" are close relatives of "style",

I don't think so. That may be because I have a degree in literature
and am married to a rhetorician, but I believe this is a hard thesis
to support. I can see a possible case for defining "style" in terms
of pragmatics, ie as something like "choice of idiom and manner of
its expression in the context of the utterance", but "elegance" is at
best only one possible dimension of style (and a rather nebulous one
at that).

Further, I can see plenty of potential arguments in favor of inelegant
styles (eg ones that advocate certain kinds of verbose description or
adherence to rigidly-defined templates). I might not make such
arguments myself, but they demonstrate that style can be argued at
cross-purposes to elegance.

However, this has gotten pretty far off-topic, and my point was quite
narrow to begin with: I'm not buying your argument for favoring K&R
style, but I don't have any objection to your favoring it, personally
or for the Wiki. And for all I know your argument may seem plausible
to many.

> > But in the end, it's the editors of the Wiki who are doing the work, and
> > the decision should be yours.
>
> Any c.l.c reader is a potential editor, so some newsgroup discussion prior
> to making a decision helps us make sure it's an appropriate one.

Sure, in principle, and I'm all for discussion, but in practice some
people will be doing the work, and it seems only right to let them
make the decisions - though it's very kind of them to listen to other
opinions.

--
Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Advertising Copy in a Second Language Dept.:
The precious ovum itself is proof of the oath sworn to those who set
eyes upon Mokona: Your wishes will be granted if you are able to invest
it with eternal radiance... -- Noriyuki Zinguzi
.

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