Re: Debuggers

Richard <devr_@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

jacob navia <jacob@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
<snip>
Having written a debugger, and passed countless hours of my professional
life using those tools (gdb, dbx, msvc, and many others) I am
suprised that people like Mr Bos can say in this forum
that it is sufficient to READ the code to be able to debug it.

It is obviously sufficient in that people have done so for decades.
There can be a lively argument about whether is it desirable, optimal,
the right way for everyone and so on, but it is undeniably possible.

Swimming the Atlantic is possible. I prefer to fly.
<and, moved:>
Oh for goodness sake. It is "possible" to do anything.

So why reply to me? It was Jacob that claimed something was
impossible. Why not reply to him saying "anything is possible"? I am
*not* saying that is was easy or desirable or my preferred option,
just that this is what people had to do.

<snip>
Yawn. Debuggers DO exist now. I started with assembler and no
debugger. So what? We are talking C NOW.

Curiously, my second job was porting Unix (user-space utilities) to a
new micro-coded architecture. The debugger (sdb at the time) was last
on the porting list because it needed micro-code and compiler support
that could not be made available until later. We (a team of three)
had to do the port and debug the code (including a large CAD
application) without a debugger. These things happen (or at least
they did, once) and it just seems absurd to say that it is
impossible. Most of this was C code, in case there is any chance or
marginal topicality left.

<snip>
Are serious people here willing to believe this stories of people
debugging huge code bases without a debugger?

Honestly, how can you doubt it? You must know that bugs existed
before debuggers and people were, on occasion, able to remove them.

Arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does that mean you can't find a counter-argument? It was Jacob that
made the absolutist claim which has obvious counter-examples. All I
did was point that out.

<snip>
What is it with CLC and mindless word games all the time? It's
surreal.

Did Jacob not mean "impossible"? If you think he was playing word
games by saying that when he did not mean it, then I am with you --
people should not do that. If someone claims X is impossible and
you've done X, would you just let it go lest you be accused of playing
word games?

--
Ben.
.

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