Re: C++ sucks for games

From: Kelsey Bjarnason (kelseyb_at_xxnospamyy.lightspeed.bc.ca)
Date: 10/28/04 

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:58:28 -0700

[snips]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:33:01 +0000, Kenneth Tilton wrote:

> 1. While working I can simply compile a changed (fixed or improved)
> five-line function and re-run. Better, if this is an interactive
> application which pauses for user input, I can do this during a pause,
> then return to the application window and offer new input and see the
> new code run. Or if I land in the debugger because of a bug in some
> function, I can fix the function and then tell the debugger to
> re-execute the stack frame which failed. Where the bug was actually in
> some caller arbitrarily high up the call chain, I can tell the debugger
> to restart /that/ frame.

This is not a language issue; this is a _tools_ issue. This is a question
of whether or not your _debugger_ allows you to do this sort of thing;
nothing in the C or C++ language specs prevents it.

> 2. Some bugs are not so obvious. The code looks fine, but they are
> working on data which does not look right. My applications are modelled
> in part with trees of long-lived instances. If I land in the debugger
> while processing node X, I can have the debugger "return" the node to an
> interactive command-line as a value I can then play with, say by passing
> it to a custom bit of code which will traverse the tree looking for
> anomalies. This can include developing new diagnostic code to traverse
> the tree, all while my application is patiently waiting at the debug
> prompt. I have many a time done this, found the problem, and not just
> fixed a bug but refactored massively, including changing the class
> hierarchy, and then discovered after hours of work that the debugger was
> still waiting at the point where the application failed. And often it is
> possible to simply say "try that again" and the application resumes
> successfully.

Again, you're discussing _tool_ issues, not _language_ issues.

> 3. Hard bugs are hard bugs. We do not just find them, because all the
> usual suspects had alibis. They seem impossible. I joke about having a
> thousand monkeys typing, but in reality the many runs made sometimes
> simply to make the bug reproducible are guided by decades of general
> programming experience and complete knowledge of my design and it still
> feels like monkeys typing. At unpleasant times like these, even a
> twenty-second wait to recompile and link becomes an onerous burden to
> anyone who has done development in an interactive environment.

And again...

>> there's plenty wondrous stuff written in C++ too.
>
> Hang on. Don't say "so what?". /You/ said you would not listen to anyone
> who had not done a serious project. I did a serious project (several,
> actually). Now you have to listen to me. :)

Sure, if you give us something that suggests there's a benefit to the
language. So far, you haven't.

Why is Chevy better than Ford? Well, see, if I use Michelin radials, I
get better road grip. Umm... so? That's a *tires* issue, has nothing
whatsoever to do with why one car is better than the other. You keep
giving us tires, while making claims about the cars.

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