Re: OT 50 States was: OT: Hemlines
From: Alistair Maclean (alistair_at_ld50macca.demon.co.uk)
Date: 12/02/03
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Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:33:12 +0000
In message <3FCBFE96.46B78F60@shaw.ca>, James J. Gavan <jjgavan@shaw.ca>
writes
>
>
>Alistair Maclean wrote:
>
>> >Truth is there was a great deal of to-ing and fro-ing between the northern
>> >Irish and Scotland, (Picts and Scots).
>>
>> Scots not Picts. The Scots came from Ireland and crossed to Mull.
>>
>
>OK so I went in alphabetical sequence - what would a Sassenach know anyway <G>
>
>>
>> Ah-ha. The Keltai (mentioned by the ancient Greeks) was a generic term
>> referring to anyone from the north of the alps. No identifiable group,
>> even in Britain, identified themselves as Celts. The notion of the Celts
>> is modern dating from the 18th century.
>
>Maybe this group should be renamed 'Anything but COBOL'. I see where you're
>coming from, but a quick dash downstairs to the basement, I found my Penguin
>paperback ' The Celts' by a Nora Chadwick. Hell - I can have a memory lapse -
>it was printed in 1972.
>
>She's not on the same wavelength as you - that's where I got my original quote
>from. Your word 'Keltai' is written as 'Keltoi'
Yep, my mistake. She has the correct spelling. Well what do you expect?
I was sober at the time!
>from Greek (KEATOi - with
>appropriate Greek symbols). Known by that name from the 5th century, the
>Romans referred to them as the Galli - later becoming Galatae in both Greek and
>Roman writing.
>
All well and to the good (you didn't need to put all of the dates and
references in unless you are a true masochist). I read recently a book
written by one of the academics at the British Museum. His argument is
that even up to the time of the Roman invasion of Britain there was no
evidence to indicate that the tribes considered themselves to be part of
a greater Celtic culture. Rather, they seemed to be fiercely independent
of each other. As someone who had hung his hat on being Celtic (and
therefore superior to the later cultures ;-) ) it was a shock to
discover that there was no such cultural identity. The curator chappy
did mention the La Tene culture and pointed out the similarities in
artefacts and the dissimilarities as well. He pointed out that the
notion of the Celts chiefly springs from the 1700s when people were
attempting to show noble lineages back to Abraham and co and were
attempting to justify Gaelic cultures as something other than savages.
He did finish by saying that if Scots, Irish, etc., chose to identify
themselves as Celtic in order to distinguish themselves from the
johnny-come-latelies (Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Normans) then this
creates the Celtic identity and culture. Clearly not quite the same as
the Keltoi.
I did state that the Isle of Man was a viking stronghold. To this day
they have the only surviving Viking parliament, the Manse.
--
Alistair Maclean
From the UK tv series "The Kumars at No. 42":
Grandmother Kumar interviewing Patrick Stewart (Captain
Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise),
"Why aren't there any Indians in Star Trek?
Don't you need any IT support?"
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