Re: Infinite Loops and Explicit Exits

From: Michael Wojcik (mwojcik_at_newsguy.com)
Date: 12/01/04 

Date: 1 Dec 2004 18:33:26 GMT

In article <dcknq0l6j596bg7j4kbpp04p2vildl4l57@4ax.com>, Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> writes:
> On 29 Nov 2004 18:18:33 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
> wrote:
> >In article <dfi9q05k354q9608hjtl766urppal2a6un@4ax.com>, Robert Wagner <spamblocker-robert@wagner.net> writes:
> >> On 24 Nov 2004 17:09:50 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> What lazy programmers do is give up on structures. [snip rest of
> >> >> non sequitur]
> >> >
> >> >Your unsubstantiated claim about what "lazy programmers do" is
> >> >irrelevant. I say nothing but laziness justifies dropping the
> >> >requirement for explicit qualification in languages that require
> >> >it. Show me an argument otherwise.
>
> That's a circular argument. Qualification is good because languages
> require it.

How is it circular? The only argument of mine you quoted above is
the claim that there is no other justification than laziness for
implicit qualification. It applies equally well if there were no
languages that require explicit qualification.

> >> The Cobol style encourages programmers to describe structural
> >> relationships. Required explicit qualification discourages it.
> >
> >Laziness, and nothing else, discourages it. Programmers who can't be
> >bothered to type are in the wrong profession. Blaming this on the
> >language is like blaming a poor nailing schedule on the weight of the
> >hammer.
>
> Programmers from other cultures criticize Cobol for being 'too
> verbose.' Their own words indicate a dislike for typing.

Their error (if it exists) does not excuse yours.

> >Hardly. You haven't shown that your sample is representative, or
> >that multiple levels of qualification are justified by the structure
> >of the data being represented.
>
> If multi-level were easy, tutorial authors would go out of their way
> to demonstrate it, as is common in Cobol tutorials.

Many things are easy; that does not compel tutorial authors to
demonstrate them. It's easy in C to convert between a wide-character
and a multibyte-character representation, as those are defined by the
implementation, but I've never seen a tutorial touch on it.

And you still haven't provided any evidence to show that your
purported survey of tutorials is representative.

> >Here's an equally questionable survey: I just looked at the 61 C
> >headers in one project tree. ...
>
> I suspect your samples were written by systems types rather than
> applications programmers.

I imagine they were. Most of them were written by me, in fact. I
don't see how this bolsters your argument, however. 

-- 
Michael Wojcik                  michael.wojcik@microfocus.com
Do not "test" parts, as this may compromise sensitive joinery.  Those who
suffer difficulty should abandon the enterprise immediately.  -- Chris Ware

Relevant Pages

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