Re: Treeviews

From: Pete Dashwood (dashwood_at_enternet.co.nz)
Date: 02/27/05 

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:08:49 +1300

<docdwarf@panix.com> wrote in message news:cvpslc$5r0$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <1109369817.028632.317290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Richard <riplin@Azonic.co.nz> wrote:
> >> The original post states 'my teacher said dialogue is the correct verb
> >> since the purpose of the "dialog" box is to converse with the
end-user.';
> >
> >It also had:
> >
> >>> I use the Dialogue Editor to
> >
> >Which I would say is a) incorrect because it is a product name, b) if
> >it wasn't a trade name, is using 'dialogue' as a noun, possibly
> >adjectivally.
>
> How does citing a properly-capitalised Product Name (International
> Business Machines and all that) change the cite I provided, Mr Plinston?
>
> >
> >> it is used to dialogue (or dialog) with the user.
> >
> >While you may be contriving to use the word as a verb I would suggest
> >that is unusal usage, especially in recent times.
>
> Mr Plinston, I have cited Merriam-Webster and the American Heritage
> Dictionary as both definine 'dialog' as a variant of 'dialogue' and both
> as a verb. Are you able to generate a cite to the contrary of this?
>
> >It would be more
> >common to say that it interacts.
> >
> >Of course americans seem to be able to abuse the language in more ways
> >than I can imagine.
>
> Most courageous, Mr Plinston, to admit to your limitations in so open and
> public a manner... but this one American can use The Compact Oxford
> English Dictionary, c.1971, to turn to page 715, sub-page 312, column 1,
> and look at the first entry on the page. This shows a 'v' after
> 'Dialogue', indicating that it is defined as a verb... but some might
> consider use according to OED definition as 'abuse', I guess.
>
> DD
>

I watched this exchange with some amusement. As usual the Doc has an
impeccable argument backed up by good authorities.

There is no doubt you are correct, Doc.

However, my sympathies here lie with Richard.

See, those of us who love the ENGLISH language (and this is not to decry or
diminish the AMERICAN dialect of it...which is perfectly valid, (especially
if you live in America)), ...we do find it discordant to hear words we
normally expect to be nouns, used as verbs.

I would have taken Richard's position myself, because I have never, until
this discussion, heard 'dialogue' used as a verb. But, in America, it has
been common practice for around 50 years now, to push nouns into use as
verbs.

It isn't 'right' or 'wrong', it just is.

To an English English speaker, it grates. But so what?

The fact that the OED now recognises it (and did in 1971), simply shows that
the scholars at Oxford are resigned to the changing nature of language and
see no reason not to make it official. (I do not dispute your authorities
here, Doc - I couldn't <G> - but I would be extremely surprised if an OLDER
edition of the OED - say, prior to 1930 gave the same definition...)

The fact of the matter is that language is an evolving and changing thing.
Local mores with regard to language do not necessarily constitute abuse.
American English is just as valid as English English, but some of us (self
included) need to remember that it is NOT English English and should not be
subject to the same judgements we make about our own speech.

I have adopted 'Americanisms' unconsciously into my own speech that would
make my English-born father turn in his grave, but I think I could justify
their use to the old boy, were he still with us... <g>.

On a long plane flight once, a fellow-traveller asked politely what my
accent was. Before I could reply, my English-born wife interjected with
heavy cynicism: "It's mid-Atlantic Antipodean..." We laughed, but I knew
what she meant. She was resentful that my frequent sojourns in the US had
influenced my speech. (Kiwi she would accommodate as "refeshing and
quaint", but Americanisms? no way...) Stating that now, I see how totally
irrational it was.

Churchill's famous quote summed it up nicely: "Britain and America: two
great countries divided by a common language"

Pete.

Relevant Pages

  • OT - A Country of Illiterates and "Survivor" Watchers Decides on a Language
    ... US Senate declares English the "national language" ... The U.S. Senate on Thursday voted to make English the "national ... The answer can lie only in the profound crisis and decay of American ...
    (alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers)
  • Re: inputbox
    ... Well actually I'd say that American is a different dialect of English. ... English is the language ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb)
  • Re: 100 years from now ...
    ... E.g. American and British ... >> English will have grown apart into almost being separate language. ... Once I set my spelling checker to UK mode, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: SYNCHRONIZING problem
    ... english is considered to be one of the harder languages to learn ... is the internet not international by its definition? ... there are foreign language forums, why should the american spelling be ... schools in these countries really have moved towards American English during ...
    (comp.lang.java.programmer)
  • Re: "Write somebody" ambiguity
    ... It is helpful and interesting to try to codify English grammar into ... language well. ... verb that controls which way to do it. ...
    (alt.usage.english)