Re: OT - "lie" vs "error"

docdwarf_at_panix.com
Date: 03/27/05 

Date: 26 Mar 2005 22:22:24 -0500

In article <joe_zitzelberger-E710C1.12193626032005@ispnews.usenetserver.com>,
Joe Zitzelberger <joe_zitzelberger@nospam.com> wrote:
>In article <d20oqd$5j0$1@panix5.panix.com>, docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
>> As for this 'guaranteed benefit' matter you raise... please, one factual
>> matter at a time. Mr Brazee's assertion of 'not a tax, an investment'
>> seems to be as unsupported as when it was originally made... and notice
>> how the originator has abandoned it?
>>
>
>The originator said that 'the state' claims that social security is not
>a tax, but an investment. Not that that is what it is, only that the
>state has claimed thus.
>
>You took issue with that and wanted to know when 'the state' makes such
>claims. Yet you define 'the state' as not including the people who run
>the state:
>
>> docdw...@panix.com Mar 17, 2:21am show options
>>
>> What politicians and bureaucrats often euphemistically call things
>> are not what 'the state' calls things
>
>FDR was the head of the state -- as such, he spoke for the state, even
>with misrepresenting.

And thus he did, in 1935... and in 1939 the regulations changed, as
previously cited from http://www.ssa.gov/mystatement/fica.htm in
<http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=d1l2gr%24g1p%241%40panix5.panix.com&output=gplain>

--begin quoted text:

As part of the 1939 Amendments the Title VIII taxing provisions were taken
out of the Social Security Act and placed in the Internal Revenue Code.

[snip]

The payroll taxes collected for Social Security are of course taxes, but
they can also be described as contributions to the social insurance system
that is Social Security.

[snip]

So FICA is nothing more than the tax provisions of the Social Security
Act, as they appear in the Internal Revenue Code.

--end quoted text

>What the law says is fact, what the people who
>write the law say about it can well be described as claims.

See above about the 1939 revisions. I believe that since 1939 comes after
Roosevelt's claims of 1935 the 1939 regulations supersede Mr Roosevelt's
statements.

>
>If the president does not, as you claim, speak for the state, who does?

The president spoke of the situation in 1935... see above about 1939.

>
>
>Bill Clinton was also, if you will pardon the pun, the head of state.
>
>When he started his "National Forum on Social Security" he also started
>using the terms "social security contributions" and "payroll
>contributions" instead of tax.
>
>"http://www.ssa.gov/history/clntstmts.html"

He also mentioned, clearly and unambiguously, taxes. From that page:

--begin quoted text:

In fact, today we collect more money in Social Security taxes every year,
quite a bit more, than we pay out.

--end quoted text

Not 'investment'... 'taxes'.

So... where is it that this is called 'not a tax, an investment'?

DD

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