Re: OT - "lie" vs "error"

Pete Dashwood wrote: 
"LX-i" <lxi0007@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:c587a$4265ab93$45491db9$30003@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is to all the folks who have written similar things (not just you,
DD).  I do not lobby for the criminalization of abortion because it is
my religious belief - I lobby for it because it is the right, humane,
and dignified thing to do.  But no one wants to talk facts - all you
(opposed) say is "YOU CAN'T SHOVE YOUR RELIGION DOWN OUR THROATS!!!!"
or words to that effect.


Daniel, I have never suggested you are shoving religion down my throat in
discussing this. I attempted to discuss it in the previous post regarding
the chicken cult in this thread, posted on the 19th, but you haven't
responded.

I know - that's not the "similar things" I was talking about. You've been nothing but civilized. With the chicken cult - I just didn't know where to begin. Mandating that someone kill a chicken is different that mandating that they *not* kill their unborn children.

If you are lobbying for the criminalization of abortion (your post above
seems to contradict a previous position where you agreed it was OK to let
the mother decide), then I would really like to hear your response to my
post. I would seriously disagree with the illegalization of abortion for the
reasons I outlined there.

Under the current law, yes, the mother can decide. It needs to be an informed decision - she needs to understand just exactly what is going on in there before she decides to cut it off.

When I lived in Chattanooga, Tennessee, my wife and I were involved with an organization call "AAA Women's Services". (There's not much on their website, but it's http://www.aaawomen.org .) These folks set up across the street from the city abortion clinic, and bill themselves as a "crisis pregnancy center". They offer counseling, free ultrasounds, and education, as well as a post-abortion support group (more on that in a bit). Over 3/4 of the women who come in there, after seeing that baby growing in them, do not get abortions.

But, AAA's work isn't done with the ultrasound. They offer assistance with housing, clothing, and medical care (with volunteers that will take the ladies around to prenatal and other appointments), along with parenting classes (if desired), to help these ladies prepare for the responsibility of rearing a child.

There was a young Hispanic girl (we'll call her "L") who came from California to Chattanooga to get an abortion. (She just picked it at random.) My wife was her initial counselor, and when she decided to carry the child to term, we went into action. We took her to appointments - my wife helped her get on Medicaid (she more than qualified), and even helped her find a job (she was a car mechanic - needless to say, her time at that job was limited!).

A few months into it, she called "T" (the father) back in CA and told him what she had done. He was so moved that he, well, moved! He came to Chattanooga, and together, they found an apartment. We helped him with his job search, and they went through parenting classes sponsored by AAA. When the baby was born, we helped them get everything set up. Just before I went into the Air Force, we sold them one of our cars at next to nothing, and T got his license.

The last I heard from them, they were about to be married - their child was healthy, and they were doing great. This is but one example of the lives that were saved/changed because people were given the information that they needed to make an informed decision - and, there were people who thought the issue was important enough that they didn't just say "you shouldn't!". They let *you* make the decision, and then they supported you through it.

This is where I *really* have a problem with the current-day Planned Parenthood-type groups. They don't want women to have the facts - just whip up the emotions about their rights, and get them to kill that child. But abortion is often worse than their pregnancy or childbirth. It's long, but a very detailed piece on post-abortion depression, along with other after-effect of abortion, can be found at http://www.vanderbilt.edu/SFL/post_abortion_depression.htm . This is also why post-abortion support groups like the ones AAA sponsors are so important as well.

(The abortion clinic across the street? Seems they had lots of problems. Women encountering complications had to go to the hospital in a taxi, because the clinic wouldn't let an ambulance be seen pulling up in its parking lot. Their business dropped off dramatically. Then, a group of businessmen got together, and along with other folks, actually bought the clinic out from under the occupants. It's now the National Memorial for the Unborn - http://www.memorialfortheunborn.org .)

Sure, I don't want abortion to be legal any more than I want murder to be legal. But, as we've seen with murder, just because it's illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. And, while the extent of my lobbying lately has been my voting (and CLC, which is going nowhere fast! ;> ), I believe that *the* key to dramatically reducing the rate of abortion is through education, on the facts of both what's inside them, and what abortion can do to them.


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pope goes Totalitarian
    ... After all the child has a 'right' ... against early abortion other than via an ethic of "rights". ... babies, or of making women suffer, or whatever. ... In the case of a human embryo: ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: Pope goes Totalitarian
    ... After all the child has a 'right' ... against early abortion other than via an ethic of "rights". ... the above is stretching the notion of "consent" too far. ... In the case of a human embryo: ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... If it were up to me, abortion would be illegal unless medical authority ... Can there BE an "unreasonable reason"? ... allowing abortion would clamor just as quickly if a different religion ... An unwanted child is as just as any other reason. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: I promised to post my essay on abortion rights....here it is
    ... the subject of legalizing post partum abortion. ... following a tip that the child had been killed after birth. ... During such labors, the procedure used in what is called a partial ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Pope goes Totalitarian
    ... It's not clear to me how one can sustain any sort of case ... against early abortion other than via an ethic of "rights". ... irrevocable consent to having a child. ... I think notions like the "sanctity of life" are useful approximations ...
    (uk.religion.christian)