Re: Making money from Java

"Peter Lacey" <lacey@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Judson McClendon wrote:
>> With such conservatives as you describe, Donald, it makes my point. You
>> don't get to see demonstrated what the majority of thinking conservatives
>> are all about. :-)
>
> Y'know, Judson, this argument is trotted out every time a proponent of
> some group or other is presented with a rancid example of the group.
> The orthodox within the group immediately disown the bad example saying
> that he isn't a true "whatever": liberals, conservatives, Catholics,
> Protestants, skateboarders, Goth musicians (I include these two quite
> seriously) ... the list goes on. If the person was >>ever<< accepted as
> a member of the group then it looks pretty feeble to attempt to distance
> the group from him when he turns out to be undesirable.

By the same token, opponents always trot out the weird fringe elements and
try to label the whole group with that brush. Isn't that, in essence, what
you and Donald are doing? :-)

> As far as I understand it, "conservative" by your definition involves a
> fairly rigid fundamentalist Christian component. But I'm willing to
> learn. Exactly what do you mean by "conservative"? Stake out your own
> definition for criticism instead of just scoffing at everyone else!

Well, I mean to be disagreeing through discussion, not 'scoffing'. :-)

That word "rigid" is pejorative, and very much undeserved. Do you consider a
physicist "rigid" if he believes the physical laws are what they are, quite
apart from what you may think they are? No more should you consider a
fundamentalist Christian "rigid" because he believes the same about
spiritual laws. Belief that there are absolutes does not make one "rigid".

I'm not qualified to formally define what a conservative is, but I will try
to answer your question about the "Christian component." :-) I will say
that, generally speaking, a 'conservative' is someone who wants to keep
traditional things like values, and a 'liberal' is one who wants to change
them. (If you want to read a Devine "poke in the eye" of liberals in that
sense, see Proverbs 24:21,22 :-)

I can only speak about conservatives here in the US. While it is true that
the great majority of 'real' Christians (those who have really received
Jesus as their Savior, as opposed to those who simply go to church and obey
certain rules) are conservative, the conservative community is much broader
than that. Excluding the Fat Cat Conservatives, most conservatives share a
more or less similar viewpoint about a range of issues. A few typical
aspects of the conservative viewpoint are respect for authority, belief in
integrity, duty, personal responsibility, limited government, personal
freedom, accountability for your actions, fiscal responsibility, rights of
ownership, strong parental authority, working for what you get, and getting
what you work for, and so forth. Many conservatives come to believe in these
things for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with religion or God. I
don't even know if most conservatives would call themselves Christians, in
the specific religious sense. However, it is a historical fact that these
and many other common conservative positions are also common principles
embodied in the traditional Judeo-Christian belief system. It is also a fact
that many (if not most) liberal positions conflict with the Judeo-Christian
belief system. It is difficult to overestimate the profound effect that
Christianity has had on Western culture and the US in particular (see
below). As a Christian, my personal worldview is profoundly influenced by my
belief in God, in Jesus Christ as my Savior, and the Bible as God's written
Word. From my viewpoint as a Christian, a liberal's trying to solve all
problems with government is simply trying to replace God, and man's
dependence on God, with dependence on man's government. But not every
conservative is opposed to Big Government for those reasons. They and I can
agree that Big Government is also bad for many other reasons. As a
Christian, I believe in capital punishment for murder because God commands
it. But many conservatives believe in capital punishment for other reasons,
most of which I probably agree with. You see, both Christians and non
Christians do math and write programs the same way. There are many practical
areas in which you don't have to believe in Jesus to come to the same
conclusions as a Christian, and vice versa. :-)

This is getting a bit aside, but related. It may help explain to some of you
why the majority of Americans are conservative. There is a core set of
beliefs that used to be much more prevalent in this country, and that set of
beliefs came from America's deeply Christian roots. Many revisionists today
try to deny this, but when you read what the Founding Fathers themselves
wrote, it is clear they were almost all Christians (like 55 of 58), and
frequently wrote about it. A while back the University of Austin did a 10
year study of the documents that were used and referenced, and the
authorities who were quoted, in the literature surrounding the creation of
the United States. The second most quoted authority was Blackstone (legal
authority). The most quoted authority, over two and a half times more often
than Blackstone, was the Bible. In the minutes to the Continental Congress,
there are records of discussions over some aspect of government between two
or more people, each with a Bible open on their desks, quoting Scripture to
support their positions. If they couldn't reach an agreement, they would
call for prayer, the assembly would get down on their knees right there,
pray for a half hour or so, then resume discussion. Many people do not
realize that the specific reason the United States has three branches of
government is because Isaiah 33:22 says "For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord
is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King ... ." Back in the 1800's, the US
Supreme Court would sometimes quote the Bible in their rulings. Anyway,
these deeply Christian roots have profoundly impacted the commonly held
belief systems of Americans down through the years, even many Americans who
are not Christians or Jews. In this context, I am very much a conservative
who wants to keep these traditional values.
--
Judson McClendon judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."


.

Relevant Pages

  • The Problem With Conservatism
    ... America the Beautiful. ... Glory of God. ... What then is a Christian to make of conservatism? ... Conservatives come in many different kinds, ...
    (alt.religion.christian)
  • The Problem With Conservatism
    ... America the Beautiful. ... Glory of God. ... What then is a Christian to make of conservatism? ... Conservatives come in many different kinds, ...
    (alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic)
  • Dick Armey against the Christian Coalition
    ... There was a day when social conservatives were united with economic conservatives in the belief that small, limited government was not only good for our economy and the prosperity of American families, but essential to protect traditional family values. ... We lose when we attempt to use government power to impose our values on others. ... I took on the entire political establishment, but we only won because thousands of Christian home-schoolers demanded that Congress keep its nose out of their decision to raise and educate their children as they saw fit. ...
    (alt.politics.bush)
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    ... I cannot, however, accept Christian belief in a sexless god that has all the same sexual parts as man without any of the desires of man. ... Early Americans came to this country because they could not go along with organized Christianity's insistence that Jesus was God on earth. ... Liberals practice the espoused tenets of christianity without the fear of a god hanging over our heads; Conservatives seem to believe that being poor is in itself a mortal sin. ...
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  • Conservatives Offer No Hope
    ... I am not a Christian and do not even play one on TV. ... Conservatives Offer No Hope ... "conservative" John McCain. ... Republican Party. ...
    (rec.audio.opinion)
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