Re: Making money from Java

Judson McClendon wrote:
>
>
> > It might also be a good idea to point out that the Bible misquotes
> > itself (KJV Luke 4:17-19, Jesus reading from the book of Isaiah 61:1-2):
> > similar but not identical.
>
> What part of "Since Jesus, as God, inspired Isaiah to write what he did, He
> was also free to paraphrase what Isaiah wrote." don't you understand. ;-)

Well, you tell me: the verb involved is "read". You might also tell me
what the purpose would be of Jesus/God "paraphrasing" his own words.
You might also tell me why you say he's paraphrasing.

>
> > Also; the only independent mention of Jesus
> > is in jesephus, in an entry which is now almost universally agreed to be
> > a later interpolation.
>
> I'll have to save that particular comment as the most uninformed statement I
> have seen in quite a while. :-)

Possibly; I don't know what you have seen in quite a while.

> Peter, it has been said that if every
> single copy of the Bible were destroyed, it would be possible to reconstruct
> the entire Bible simply from references in other ancient texts. :-)

That may also be so, although I'd be dubious about the New Testament.
Still, you haven't answered what I wrote: that there is no INDEPENDENT
mention of Jesus except in Josephus. Julius Caesar is mentioned in
sources other than his own writings.



> Greenleaf's curiosity, and he spend several months studying the issue. The
> result is a small (128pg) book by Greenleaf called "The Testimony of the
> Evangelists: The Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered in
> Courts of Justice." In the book Greenleaf closely examines the evidence and
> makes a determination regarding its validity. I will let Greenleaf speak for
> himself, but he was quite certain of the outcome. :-)

It must be a remarkable little book. From Biblical evidence alone, you
can't tell me Jesus' birth year or month; you can't give a consistent
list of the twelve disciples; you can't tell me why one family would
have two living daughters named Mary; and you can't tell me whether the
last supper was on Passover or the day before. Nor can you tell me the
name of the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.

Old testament: why does poor old Pharoah have such a bad reputation;
after all, for the last four of the plagues, he was ready to let the
Israelites go, but God hardened his heart then punished him again.
What's the point of that? Did you, when you got married, take a year
off to cheer up your wife (Deut.24:5)?

(If anybody want to know the source of these statements, contact me
off-group).


> If you are willing to do some real study to find the truth, and want to know
> where the evidence is, then I recommend the book "Evidence That Demands a
> Verdict" by Josh McDowell.

As it happens, I have it. I found it very difficult to read because of
his idea of argument.

Never mind. I'm an agnostic by decision, because there isn't enough
information available to the mortal man. The Bible is insufficient in
and of itself simply because it condemns everybody not fortunate enough
to hear (or have heard before the time of Jesus) of it. Further, there
are impossible difficulties with the "eternity" required by Christian
theology. I don't dispute that there was a man named Jesus. He may
even have done all the things that the Bible says he does. But since I
wasn't there at the time (and you weren't either) we have to subject the
Bible as history to the same sort of open-minded skepticism that we
would to any other document of equal antiquity.

(You haven't commented on my concept of how the holy words of God would
be written, I notice).

The Bible and the Koran are both the words of God, according to their
followers. I have to throw the towel in at that point because - again -
there isn't enough available information to make a rational choice.

I've had experience with discussions like this before. My brother is of
your school of thought, although he's had to mellow a bit with age. I
find that he never quite answers the question and is adept at shifting
the subject. Nor will he answer questions about what things in Greek
actually say: for instance: KJV: Genesis 7:20 - "fifteen cubits upwards
did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered". What EXACTLY
is the translation of the original Greek? (A cubit is usually taken to
be 18"; so it wasn't all that much of a flood. Either that or the
mountains were pretty puny then. You can get out if it by assuming that
the verse means that the waters were 15 cubits higher than the mountains
- but since the Bible doesn't actually say so you can't claim it as
Truth. Nor does the Bible state where that much water came from - Mount
Ararat is over 17,000 feet high - or where it went). In any case,
what's been accepted by faith is never admitted to be open to question -
thence the unsatisfactory discussions.

Answer if you like, Judson; further questioning or commentary on my part
would be pointless. Our standards of proof are utterly incompatible. I
think you're wrong but that's your privelege.

PL
.

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