Re: Making money from Java

"Peter Lacey" <lacey@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Judson McClendon wrote:
>>
>> > It might also be a good idea to point out that the Bible misquotes
>> > itself (KJV Luke 4:17-19, Jesus reading from the book of Isaiah
>> > 61:1-2):
>> > similar but not identical.
>>
>> What part of "Since Jesus, as God, inspired Isaiah to write what he did,
>> He
>> was also free to paraphrase what Isaiah wrote." don't you understand. ;-)
>
> Well, you tell me: the verb involved is "read". You might also tell me
> what the purpose would be of Jesus/God "paraphrasing" his own words.
> You might also tell me why you say he's paraphrasing.

Peter, the Old Testament (which was the only 'Bible' available in Jesus'
time) was written in Ancient Hebrew. The New Testament is written in Greek
and Aramaic. If you know or have been exposed to more than one language,
you will know that it is sometimes difficult, perhaps even impossible to
express *exactly* the same statement in two languages. But my point was
that, Jesus, being the actual author of all Scripture (through inspiration
of the Holy Spirit), the He is certainly free to articulate those Scriptures
in any way He sees fit. From what rational standpoint would a finite created
being be able to challenge his infinite Creator's actions? ;-) There's far
less distance between a microbe and a man (both being finite) than between a
finite man and infinite God. That gulf is vast beyond human comprehension.
God can bridge the gap to us, but man could never bridge the gap to God,
without God's help. Nor could man understand God, or anything about God,
without Divine revelation. For a man to think otherwise is the epitomy of
conceit and foolishness. :-)

>> > Also; the only independent mention of Jesus
>> > is in jesephus, in an entry which is now almost universally agreed to
>> > be
>> > a later interpolation.
>>
>> I'll have to save that particular comment as the most uninformed
>> statement I
>> have seen in quite a while. :-)
>
> Possibly; I don't know what you have seen in quite a while.
>
>> Peter, it has been said that if every
>> single copy of the Bible were destroyed, it would be possible to
>> reconstruct
>> the entire Bible simply from references in other ancient texts. :-)
>
> That may also be so, although I'd be dubious about the New Testament.
> Still, you haven't answered what I wrote: that there is no INDEPENDENT
> mention of Jesus except in Josephus. Julius Caesar is mentioned in
> sources other than his own writings.

That statement is simply false.

>> Greenleaf's curiosity, and he spend several months studying the issue.
>> The
>> result is a small (128pg) book by Greenleaf called "The Testimony of the
>> Evangelists: The Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered
>> in
>> Courts of Justice." In the book Greenleaf closely examines the evidence
>> and
>> makes a determination regarding its validity. I will let Greenleaf speak
>> for
>> himself, but he was quite certain of the outcome. :-)
>
> It must be a remarkable little book. From Biblical evidence alone, you
> can't tell me Jesus' birth year or month; you can't give a consistent
> list of the twelve disciples; you can't tell me why one family would
> have two living daughters named Mary; and you can't tell me whether the
> last supper was on Passover or the day before. Nor can you tell me the
> name of the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.
>
> Old testament: why does poor old Pharoah have such a bad reputation;
> after all, for the last four of the plagues, he was ready to let the
> Israelites go, but God hardened his heart then punished him again.
> What's the point of that? Did you, when you got married, take a year
> off to cheer up your wife (Deut.24:5)?
>
> (If anybody want to know the source of these statements, contact me
> off-group).
>
>
>> If you are willing to do some real study to find the truth, and want to
>> know
>> where the evidence is, then I recommend the book "Evidence That Demands a
>> Verdict" by Josh McDowell.
>
> As it happens, I have it. I found it very difficult to read because of
> his idea of argument.
>
> Never mind. I'm an agnostic by decision, because there isn't enough
> information available to the mortal man. The Bible is insufficient in
> and of itself simply because it condemns everybody not fortunate enough
> to hear (or have heard before the time of Jesus) of it. Further, there
> are impossible difficulties with the "eternity" required by Christian
> theology. I don't dispute that there was a man named Jesus. He may
> even have done all the things that the Bible says he does. But since I
> wasn't there at the time (and you weren't either) we have to subject the
> Bible as history to the same sort of open-minded skepticism that we
> would to any other document of equal antiquity.
>
> (You haven't commented on my concept of how the holy words of God would
> be written, I notice).
>
> The Bible and the Koran are both the words of God, according to their
> followers. I have to throw the towel in at that point because - again -
> there isn't enough available information to make a rational choice.
>
> I've had experience with discussions like this before. My brother is of
> your school of thought, although he's had to mellow a bit with age. I
> find that he never quite answers the question and is adept at shifting
> the subject. Nor will he answer questions about what things in Greek
> actually say: for instance: KJV: Genesis 7:20 - "fifteen cubits upwards
> did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered". What EXACTLY
> is the translation of the original Greek? (A cubit is usually taken to
> be 18"; so it wasn't all that much of a flood. Either that or the
> mountains were pretty puny then. You can get out if it by assuming that
> the verse means that the waters were 15 cubits higher than the mountains
> - but since the Bible doesn't actually say so you can't claim it as
> Truth. Nor does the Bible state where that much water came from - Mount
> Ararat is over 17,000 feet high - or where it went). In any case,
> what's been accepted by faith is never admitted to be open to question -
> thence the unsatisfactory discussions.
>
> Answer if you like, Judson; further questioning or commentary on my part
> would be pointless. Our standards of proof are utterly incompatible. I
> think you're wrong but that's your privelege.

The difference between us is that I know God personally. Nothing special
about me, God is eager to have a relationship with all of us. With you as
much as with me or anybody else. We were created for this very purpose. God
became a man and died on a Roman cross to provide a way for our offenses
against Him to be forgiven, marked "Paid in Full". It's easy to meet God.
All you have to do is to ask with a sincere heart (you have to really mean
it) for God to reveal Himself to you. A lot of people have met God that way,
"God, if you are really there, then reveal Yourself to me." Then get ready,
because once you meet God for real, and His Holy Spirit comes to live within
you, you don't have to guess, you *KNOW* that God is real. I speak to God,
and He speaks to me. But, this is a personal thing between God and each of
us. God is not going to force Himself on anybody who doesn't want Him. All
of us have a choice, we can reject God and spend eternity without God, or
receive God and spend eternity with God. If you want to meet God, He is
ready and waiting. But the choice is up to each of us. Personally, I would
rather spend eternity with Someone who was willing to die for me, even
before I knew Him. :-)
--
Judson McClendon judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."


.

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