Re: Making money from Java


"Judson McClendon" <judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:vMnmf.466$w7.160@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Howard Brazee" <howard@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> "Judson McClendon" <judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>> The Bible, after all, is supposed to be God's word. As such, there is
>>>> no way it needs to suffer from all sorts of human faults. I can't
>>>> imagine how God would want it any other way.
>>>
>>>Did it ever occur to you that God has knowledge, thoughts and motives
>>>that
>>>you don't know about, that are beyond your comprehension? That's what
>>>I've
>>>been saying, that a finite created being believing he can know and
>>>understand why God does things, without God telling Him, is arrogance
>>>beyond
>>>belief. You actually propose to judge God's actions and motives by your
>>>standards? And you think that isn't arrogance? Wow! :-)
>>

You didn't pick up on it being arrogance until I suggested that your
position on it would be considered arrogance by some. It was "conceited or
foolish", according to you...(as it happens, I am neither...). Before you
accuse me of more twisting, here's the quote:

">> You are saying that anyone who disagrees with you is either conceited or
>> foolish. I say, anyone who says that people who disagree with him are
>> either conceited or foolish, has closed his mind and stopped listening.
>> An unkind person might call this arrogance."

And while we're on the subject of twisting..."You actually propose to judge
God's actions and motives by your standards?" I have never proposed any such
thing. I try to avoid judging people (or Gods) by any standards whatsoever.
I like to try and understand why they behave the way they do; but I reserve
judgement on the person, preferring to have an opinion about their
behaviour. The same goes for God. As an open minded Atheist, (and I notice
Jimmy tumbled this immediately, below) there is no reason why I should not
investigate God, the possibility of God existing or not, whether God would
be required in order for the universe to be the way it is, or anything else
I choose to scrutinise, without any trace of arrogance, just enquiry and
data collection, and draw my own conclusions. When did the spirit of
enquiry become arrogance?

>>And you think that isn't arrogance? Wow! :-)
Wow, indeed. Not only do I think it isn't arrogant, I think it demonstrates
humility in wanting to know, and, even more important, it causes me to grow
when I indulge in it. (I spent over twenty years doing this. I'm still doing
it to some extent today. My mind is still open, but the preponderance of the
evidence persuades me there is no God; He is an invention of Humans because
(for the most part) we need such a concept. I still respect those who, like
me, hold an honest opinion (especially when they arrived at it by
independent thought and investigation, rather than having it beaten into
them when they were kids, or brainwashed into them during a time fo stress)
, even if it differs from mine.

(I am a bit harder on the ones who simply toe the party line, do no
independent thought, but just decide everything they need to know is in one
collection of "divinely inspired" myths, and the world is 6000 years old.
And I have least respect for those who not only accept everything in the
Bible without question, but then try to forcefully persuade others that this
is the right and proper position to adopt. Even with this latter, I try to
grant them the right to an opinion, and in all cases I make no judgements.
Where is the arrogance?



>> Aren't you supposed to do your best to understand what God wants and
>> live the live He wants you to live?
>
> Sure. As I've said, there is nothing wrong with wanting to know about God.
> That's a Good Thing. The problem is for us to think we can understand God
> without help from God. Even with His help, we will be limited in what we
> can understand, because of our limited, finite minds. A microbe trying to
> understand a man would have far less gap to bridge than a finite man
> trying to understand an infinite God. For a man to think he can judge God
> and God's decisions by a man's thinking, understanding and opinions is
> downright is laughable. If you're interested in what God Himself thinks
> about such a situation, read Psalm 2. :-)

That would be what the Psalmist thinks about it. You are a long way from
establishing that God wrote it, or even inspired it, by any reasonable
evidence or means, other than your own faith. May work for you, but it
doesn't for me. That isn't arrogance; it is simple fact.

>
> This is why Christians value the Bible so much, because we believe it is
> God's Word, penned by some 40 authors over some 1400 years, but all of it
> inspired by God's Holy Spirit, for the purpose of God revealing Himself to
> us (see 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

OK, that's your belief.

If you were of a questioning nature you might ask why an infinitely powerful
God, who can blaze the fundamental principles of what he wants into tablets
of stone for Moses (without requiring scribes or intermediaries), would take
such a painful, error prone, drawn out, and devious method to reveal Himself
to ordinary folk... Look at all the people who have died awful and painful
deaths because of differing opinions about what exactly was being revealed.

Pete.

> --
> Judson McClendon judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (remove zero)
> Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
> "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
> whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
>


.

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