Re: Making money from Java


"Judson McClendon" <judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:GRHnf.4997$w7.2414@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Alistair" <alistair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Judson McClendon wrote:
>>> "Alistair" <alistair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > Judson, another God (Allah) told his faithful to spread his word with
>>> > force if necessary. Does that make it right?
>>>
>>> Jesus never sinned, and even Pilate said He was innocent. Jesus gave His
>>> life willingly. He further proved that He is God by raising from the
>>> dead
>>> and being seen by over 500 people at one time. Mohammed was a cruel man
>>> (like his father) who beat his wives. Mohammed didn't give his life for
>>> anybody. And we know where Mohammed's bones are. Moslems are free to
>>> believe what they like, but I'll go with Jesus. :-)
>>
>> You have blatantly avoided the question. Both are God-given
>> philosophies and are equally valid/with merit.
>
> In your mind, perhaps. :-)

The question was "Does that make it right?" where "it" refers to "Another
God (Allah) told his faithful to spread his word -- with force if
necessary." In order to NOT avoid the question, you should either respond
with "yes" or "no". And if you respond with "no", expect to get asked why
this religion is not "right" but Christianity is. Presumably, "right" in
this context is in the sense of morally good, but you'll have to ask
Alistair to be sure.

>
> It depends on who/what one makes their 'god'. The real God, the one who
> created everything, and before Whom every being will stand and be judged,
> chose not to force people to believe. Had He wanted to do that, he could
> have avoided being blasphemed and cursed by those who hate Him.

So far, this is (logically) correct, but there is a bit of laxness here
(the term "The real God" implies that it is known that there is a real God,
which hasn't been established yet), and the part about "chose not to force
people to believe" is true but misleading, but I'll get into that later.

> If this 'Allah' is all powerful and pre-determines every act, then calls
> upon some to destroy others for not believing, that is logically
> inconsistent.

Not nescessarily. You can compare this to a child playing with toy
soldiers. From the point of view of those soldiers, that child is
essentially God, in that he has control over the soldier's entire
"universe", and knows well in advance everything that will ever happen in
that universe. However, the child may *INTENTIONALLY* create enemies for his
"chosen people". He will, of course, ensure that his chosen people will win,
but he may take delight if the battle is particularly bloody.

> The real God permits people a choice, calls upon them to do right,
> provides a way to be reconcilled to Him even after they fail to do this,
> then judges them based on what they choose to do with their own hearts.

This is not nescessarily true. Perhaps the "real God" (if such a being
exists), gave us no choice at all. Maybe he is forcing you to believe in
him, and forcing me to not believe. So while the statement "God is not
forcing everybody to believe" is true (i.e. he's not forcing ME to believe),
the statement "God give people a choice to believe in what they want" is not
nescessarily true (and as far as I can tell, cannot logically be shown to be
true nor false).

>
>> In contrast, Christianity requires turning the other cheek. However,
>> Papal action allows the killing of heathens and pagans (in crusades)
>> and banned the crossbow as the work of Satan. Can a crusade be
>> justified?
>
> The Pope isn't God, he is just a man.

This may be another source of Christianity-bashing. From your view point
(I'm assuming), the "boss" of Christianity is God. But from an Atheist's
point of view, there is no such thing as God, and so the "real" boss of
Christianity is the Pope. From the point of view of the Atheist, it's like
"the man behind the curtain" and the Wizard of Oz. Some people are fooled,
and some aren't, but the person who's truly in control is the Pope.

Given this viewpoint, it's understandable why some people strongly
dislike Christianity as it exists now: The Pope is the head of the
organization, and the Pope has caused lots of death. People don't want to
have anything to do with that organization now because of it.

- Oliver


.

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