Re: Making money from Java

"Chuck Stevens" <charles.stevens@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "Judson McClendon" <judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Humans do not get into Heaven by being good, they get into Heaven in one
>> and only one way, by receiving salvation by the grace of God, through
>> faith in Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, and Who died a
>> substitutionary death to pay the penalty for our sins.
>
> If their works don't *demonstrate* their faith, however great the faith
> might be, that's open to discussion.

Actually, discussion doesn't enter into it. God knows who are the true
believers, and doesn't ask our opinion on the matter. :-)

>> By definition, all Christians believe this, or they are not Christians.
>
> All Christians believe that, if your behavior doesn't match your
> proclamations, you are nonetheless "saved"?

I have a very good friend who is a devout Christian. In 1975 when he was
saved, and for a short time after, he was doing drugs and cursing and such
because he didn't know any better. It wasn't his conduct that made him a
Christian, but his faith in Jesus. We might look at someone and decide he is
or isn't a Christian because of his actions, but we really can't be sure.
Every Christian sins from time to time, and occasionally someone gets into a
Big Sin. But it is still their faith in Jesus, not their actions, that make
them a Christian. That's what it means to be saved "by grace". We don't
deserve it.

>> Humans do not get into Heaven by being good, they get into Heaven in one
>> and only one way, by receiving salvation by the grace of God, through
>> faith in Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, and Who died a
>> substitutionary death to pay the penalty for our sins.
>>
>> Fortunately, as much as I disagree with some Catholic doctrines, I
>> believe the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church is entirely in
>> agreement with that statement. Being right or wrong on lesser matters of
>> doctrine may beneficial or detrimental, but that one doctrine is an
>> absolute essential.
>
> The terms "sola fide", "sola gratia" and "sola scriptura" (faith alone,
> grace alone, scripture alone) are specifically characteristic of the
> Reformation, in particular identified with Luther, in direct opposition to
> the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. I don't believe this changed
> with the Counter-Reformation.
>
> Since you insist that *all* Christians believe at least the first of these
> (and probably the first two), you directly *exclude* Roman Catholics from
> your definition of "all Christians" (along with anyone else who doesn't
> accept Luther's principles) despite your protestations to the contrary.

You certainly know more about Catholic doctrine than I do, I've never been a
Catholic. But I have seen written declarations from the Catholic Church
expressing precisely the definition I give above (in almost the exact same
words), or I wouldn't have said so. Anyway, it doesn't matter what I say,
those principles are clearly and repeatedly defined in the Bible and beyond
dispute. I would be very shocked and disappointed to learn that the Catholic
Church deviated so far from God's Word as to make themselves a cult.

Do Catholics believe that we are saved by the grace of God and not by works?

Do Catholics believe that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ?


Do Catholics believe that Jesus is the only way to be reconciled to God?

Do Catholics believe that Jesus is the Son of God?


Do Catholics believe that Jesus died for our sins?

These are what I said all Christians believe. Surely you are not telling me
that the answer to any of those is 'no'?
--
Judson McClendon judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."


.

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