Re: Making money from Java

"Judson McClendon" <judmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Mi6pf.732$RZ6.42@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>> Thus, as I read your premise: (1) All Christians must believe in
>> salvation by faith alone through grace alone. (2) Roman Catholicism
>> teaches that salvation is by faith alone through grace alone. Therefore
>> (3) Roman Catholic doctrine is a Christian doctrine.
>>
>> Whether (1) is true or not, (2) is definitely false.
>
> The Bible clearly and defiinitely teaches (1).

The words of Jesus in Matthew 16:27 and 25:33 are pretty clear declarations
to the contrary. When there's a perceived inconsistency between Paul's
words and Jesus', as a Christian I tend to put more weight on Jesus' and
treat Paul's (in this case, in conjunction with James') as carrying more
weight.

I see "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" with minimal wording
differences in the KJV at Psalm 111,10; Proverbs 1:7; Proverbs 9:10; and
Sirach 1:14. The way I've always understood it is through the following
progression of analogies:

At one level of maturity, the child will do the dishes after dinner because
he fears punishment if he doesn't.

At another level, the child will do the dishes after dinner to get a reward.

At another level, the child will do the dishes out of love because Mom asked
him to.

At another level, the child will do the dishes out of love without being
prompted, as a matter of course.

I believe the last is a "higher level" of spiritual maturity than the first.
BUT: the kid still has to do the dishes.

And no matter how much he proclaims that he loves his parents, if he doesn't
do the dishes his actions (in this limited scenario) belie his words.

> Draw your own conclusions about the rest. :-)

I have already demonstrated by citation from the Catholic Encyclopedia that
(2) is CONTRARY to Roman Catholic doctrine. Your arguments about semantics
don't cut it, given that it is specifically the issue of the word "alone" in
the phrase "faith alone" that they don't agree with, and it is specifically
the use of the word "alone" in conjunction with "faith" that Luther
*introduced*. I think the Roman Catholics are right in this respect.
You're the one that came to erroneous conclusions, both about the
universality of acceptance of "sola fide" among Christians and its
acceptance as a matter of faith by the Roman Catholic Church in particular,
as part of your declaration that this is a required tenet for a Christian,
stated *not* as a matter of opinion but as a matter of *fact*.

I've said before: I do not believe God plays a game of Simon Says.

> To simply relay what the Bible clearly says is not arrogance.

To claim that "sola fide" is the only possible interpretation of the Bible,
to claim (by omission) that Jesus' words are irrelevant to the point, and to
state categorically that the Roman Catholic Church and all of its
theologians have been wrong on the subject for the last two thousand years
strikes me as a *bit* on the arrogant side!

> Do you think God reads Roman Catholic doctrine to decide whether
> individuals are saved? :-)

Do you think God says "What people do and how they behave is irrelevant,
only what they believe" in deciding whether individuals are saved? I think
Matthew records Jesus as stating otherwise.

> Every person receives Jesus or not as an individual.

Every person is judged by God based, I believe, on what they *understand*,
and how they put that understanding into practice. Judgment is *not*
synonymous with condemnation.

And having lived with condemnation all my life, I am now at the point where
I do the best I can from day to day to keep my thoughts and my actions
focused toward my understanding of proper attitude and behavior, and am
prepared to face my Maker and His judgment of my strengths, my weaknesses,
my understanding, my misunderstandings, my accomplishments and my
transgressions. What the outcome will be is whatever the outcome will be at
the time; I don't focus on either the reward or the punishment, only in
doing the best I can to stay in alignment with what I believe God's will
for me to be on a daily basis, not out of fear but out of love. Sometimes I
succeed, sometimes I don't, and when I don't, I regret it and work to avoid
it, again, out of love, not out of fear. Whether that's good enough for God
the Father is up to Him, and I'm willing to accept what comes, be that
eternal bliss, eternal torture, eternal oblivion, or anything else. And
yes, I rely on Jesus in the process. I do not believe that reliance is in
vain because of my position on "sola fide".

-Chuck Stevens


.

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