Re: Making money from Java


Pete Dashwood wrote:
> "Alistair" <alistair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > Defaultuser wrote:
> >> "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> > "Defaultuser" <defaultuser@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > I have a friend (the one who thinks that I am a nutter) who has been a
> > habitual criminal since his childhood. From the extensive discussions
> > that I have had with him it is clear that deterrence does not enter
> > into his calculations. Rather, he sees an opportunity and carries out a
> > criminal act. If he gets caught, then he considers the punishment. He
> > does not see the punishment as a problem, rather more as consequence of
> > being caught rather than a punishment. He does enjoy being in jail! He
> > sees it as a holiday.
> >
> So, you agree that punishment is no deterrence?

Punishment is no deterrence unless the fear of being caught is
sufficiently high. With modern detection failure rates, punishment is
no deterrence. Increasing the punishment would have the effect of
causing criminals to make more and more extreme effort not to get
caught (A London, UK, rapist resorted to killing his victims before he
finally got caught). There are circumstances where severe punishment
may result in a deliberately greater crime (who accused of treason
would willing surrender in a siege with hostages knowing that they were
for the chop?).

> I see it as of no value
> because it does not address the fundamental problem that leads to crime. If
> the attitude of people was changed by punishment, or it helped them grow in
> some way, I'd support it. It doesn't. Quite the opposite.

My criminal friend was put on a community service order. He was
employed to build an adventure playground for children. He enjoyed the
task so much that he went back at night and vandalised the playground
so that he would be brought back in to repair the facility. He enjoyed
that too. His punishment had been oriented towards a useful and
personally fulfilling activity but that did nothing to mend his ways.

> All it does it
> make the rest of society feel that "justice" was served.

Agreed.

> (Actually,
> punishment has nothing to do with justice; it has to do with vengeance and
> "getting even". Very much an Old Testament concept where God set a fine
> example to us all, with obscene punishments based on His petulance. It's
> time we grew up and let it go...)

Agreed.

>
> We should have penalties for crime, but they should be useful, positive
> penalties that grow the perpetrator to the point where he/she no longer sees
> crime as a winning way to get by in society. The way to solve crime is to
> change people's minds about wanting to commit it. Punishment doesn't do
> that; rehabilitation (where feasible), has a chance of doing it.

There are so many criminals and so little effort made to rehabilitate
so this aspect is not working. It would require a massive effort on the
part of the authorities to address this issue. Some crimes can not be
rehabilitated, especially wrt society (see rape and child molestation).
Even where a criminal has served a full prison sentence, undergone
psychotherapy and rehabilitation, society will not forgive some crimes.

> Instilling
> the right attitudes in kids (as many parents try to do) is the best hope of
> defeating crime. I grew up in poor neighbourhood. We didn't go round robbing
> each other. Our parents pointed out that antisocial behaviour is just that;
> antisocial. Comunities need to work together, not against each other. Poor
> communities need to work even harder.

We did not commit crime nor did we commit vandalism (despite having
fewer means of usefully occupying ourselves). I was never aware of my
parents instilling any sense of social responsibility but they must
have done. Certainly, I know many parents who seem to blame anybody
else other than themselves for their childrens' bad behaviour. I am
sure that many newspapers and social commentators would blame the
abolition of the lash at school for the (apparent) drop in social
responsibility. People have to accept that they are responsible for
their own actions (and parents are responsible for the behaviour of
their children) and a socially deprived childhood does not excuse
crime. Was it not in America where a kleptomaniac tried to blame
his/her parents for their crime, saying that his/her mother was beaten
by the father during preganancy and the phrase "Take that!" was
repeated? Surely a perfect excuse for perpetrating a certain boy band
on the world but not for theft?

>
> Punishment is not the answer.

In the UK, some frequent offenders have been severely punished by being
sent on all-expenses-paid luxury holidays; much to the disgust of the
rest of society. If you reward criminals then you will alienate other
deprived law-abiding echelons of society and demonstrate to them that
crime is a viable option.

Finally, in the UK, it is recognised that burglars tend to steal from
their own, that is to say, if you live in Walthamstow (mythical place)
then you will tend to commit your crime in or near to Walthamstow. This
observation is true to other crimes (child molestation/abuse, rape,
muggings).

>
> Pete.

.

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