Re: Any comments? (Answers to Pete)

I'm glad y'all are alright - Gallatin was hit very badly but my cousin
is ok. They just built a historic farm and were trying to turn it into
a b&b. It's a beautiful place and I have a lot of friends in the
Nashville area so I've been busy calling everybody.

I think we could agree on a lot of things, except here are my final
thoughts (as authentic as Jerry Springer's)

"The actual intent of this phrase was to prevent the establishment of a

state religion. The way it's been twisted today, to keep people from
praying before a high school football game, for example, is ludicrous
(IMO). "

- I don't have a problem with religious perspectives being taught in
school for what they are. Beliefs, not theories. It is a common
misunderstanding of what a theory actually is. To be a theory there
does have to be significant evidence based upon a consensus of
scientific study and testing. While it isn't necessarily indisputable
in all ways that doesn't mean it isn't fact. Think about the Law of
Gravity. That is a Theory. We all pretty much agree that it exists.
That is different than a faith or belief system. If you can't prove
it thru the scientific method, which people have tried, then how can
creationism be a scientific theory that can be presented in a Science
Classroom? The problem isn't that religion is taught but the context
in how it is presented. It isn't science, not yet anyway.

If you see the bible as literal truth then I can understand why it
could be mistaken for a theory. But I interpret the Bible by trying to
see what meaning I can get, and how we can apply it to today. How can
all of it be actual fact when it has been transcribed over centuries by
a million different scribes and churches and edited for content.
Didn't they just find the book of Judas was valid and should have been
included so everyone's idea of Judas might have been misinterpreted for
centuries? Heck I don't even like the Old Testament, to me it shows a
vengeful and unforgiving God. That's why Jesus was needed, to show us
that there was a better way to know God. Not by following orthodoxy
and the opinions of rabbis and organized religion, but through him,
faith and understanding.

I think that the point is not to scare people away from religion by
forcefeeding it, that certainly scared me away from organized religion.
The point is to lead by example and try to be a good person and love
your fellow human beings. Teaching religion is never going to be done
well in a classroom, and I don't want some people being able to push
their ideas and agendas even though they may mean well. That would
harm Christianity more than help it. I don't want a fire and brimstone
type idea being presented with the help of my tax dollars. From what I
have seen in East Tennessee, there are some pretty scary
misinterpretations that have no place in public education or anywhere
else. When the Tsunami hit Sri Lanka, and Southeast Asia, I actually
heard people say to me ( at work even - these people are supposed to be
educated!) that it was God's will because God punished the
nonbelievers. Not to mention an inaccurate understanding of geography
or the fact that there are large Catholic populations in the South
Pacific, it was offensive and ignorant to actually say that kind of
crap in public. I also heard that kind of drivel about Hurricane
Katrina being the will of God, showing absolute intolerance hatefulness
and homophobia, which I find ironic because the part of downtown New
Orleans that wasn't totally destroyed was the hedonistic French
Quarter. Poisonous ideas like that show me that religion can be a
vehicle for intolerance which allows people to do evil things to each
other. I don't want that being taught to kids, which somewhere in some
backwater it will be if you allow it. They seem to forget that Jesus
forgave all and loved everyone regardless of who they were, and the
point is not to hate and condemn but love thy neighbor.

And if you present one religious belief system, you gotta present them
all. Nobody has time for that, unless maybe there was a comparative
religion class and as an elective class I think that would be ok. And
if they want to say a prayer at a football game, that's ok - it's
voluntary and you aren't forced or expected to participate. But it
should not be required in any way, there are people who want the
freedom not to believe in religion or keep their views private. It's
about respecting everyone, not just the majority. There are areas for
religious thought and study. And there are contexts where learning
about religious doctrines and historical perspectives are beneficial.
But not as a scientific theory. It just isn't the same thing.

I am curious to see why you don't think evolution is a science.
Couldn't it be compatible with religion? I don't see the conflict?
Why couldn't God have created the universe to evolve and change the way
Evolutionary theory is trying to determine? But I don't probably see
the old testament the same way I guess.

Here is the definition of a theory in wikipedia:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theory has a number of distinct meanings in different fields of
knowledge, depending on the context and their methodologies. In common
usage, people use the word "theory" to signify "conjecture",
"speculation", or "opinion." In this sense, "theories" are opposed to
"facts" - parts of the world, or claims about the world, that are
real or true regardless of what people think.

In science, a theory is a logical (thus often mathematical) model of
the world (or some portion of it) which predictions either have been
tested through numerous experiments, or were verified through empirical
observation. In other words, for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not
stand in opposition, but rather support each other, are logically
consistent with each other - for example, it is a fact that apple
dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the
planet, and the theory which explains why apple behaves so is the
current theory of gravitation.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: AiG goes after Francis Collins
    ... principles is incompatible with what science tells us about the world. ... the idea that God speaks directly to any person, ... any "is" claims must be accompanied by evidence. ... was that the proper domain of religion is "ought" claims only. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Faith, Reason, God and Other Imponderables
    ... Books on Science ... Faith, Reason, God and Other Imponderables ... for the age of the earth, scientists have to be brave to talk about religion. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Darwins god
    ... God has always been a puzzle for Scott Atran. ... Atran has been struggling with questions about religion ever ... something beyond the reach or understanding of science. ...
    (talk.atheism)
  • Religion and evolution
    ... God has always been a puzzle for Scott Atran. ... about religion ever since - why he himself no longer believes in God ... something beyond the reach or understanding of science. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
  • Re: Religion and evolution
    ... God has always been a puzzle for Scott Atran. ... about religion ever since - why he himself no longer believes in God ... something beyond the reach or understanding of science. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)