Re: US Presidents; an outside view WAS: Any comments? (Evolution - was Answers to Pete)


"Donald Tees" <donald_tees@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:IIe2g.3125$DR6.224511@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<snip>>>>>
Mexican people are not US citizens and have no such rights.

Softly, softly, Mr Dashwood... if it were determined that illegal aliens
in the United States of America *do*, as determined by appropriate
judicial authority, have rights under the Constitution (the Bill of
Rights
being Amendments to same) then would this counter-argument be
unsupportable?


If that were to be determined it is tantamount to saying that anyone who
happens to be on American soil has the same rights as an American
citizen.
So, I'm on holiday in Florida or California and I can expect to have the
same Constitutional rights as someone who was born and raised there?

What then, is the point of being a tax paying citizen?

Pete.

And if you are on holiday in Florida, or in an airport on a stopover
during a flight to Europe or Canada, should you have any rights? Or
should you be open to any indignity any law official wishes to inflict
on you? What for example, if they grabbed you and threw you in jail
because they thought you were a terrorist. Should you be allowed a
lawyer? By current practices, you not only have no right to a lawyer,
but they do not even have to admit to arresting you. In fact, they can
through you into a jail for an interterminate time, and keep it entirely
secret. They do not have to bring charges.

Donald

I followed your link and read about Mr. Arar. It was pretty dreadful. Even
though the United States did not impose all of the indignities he suffered,
there is a certainly a good case that it would never have happened f he had
been dealt with properly in New York. I couldn't see their objection to
sending him on to Montreal. They could have alerted the Canadians and handed
over a Canadian citizen to the Authorities there. They obviously genuinely
believed he was Al Que'da. Presumably he could bring a civil case?

Answering your question above...

If I was on holiday in the USA (and I am fairly frequently), I would expect
(as Mr. Arar did...) to have access to a phone and a lawyer. I would expect
to have my basic Human Rights respected even if I didn't expect the
protection that an American citizen could expect. That means no beatings,
proper food and rest breaks, and no inhumane treatment. I think transit
passengers could reasonably expect to have access to the representative of
their country in America, also.

It's a fine line. He HAD had contact with people who were known to be Al
Que'da, even though he was quite innocent. I can understand the Americans
putting pressure on (and let's be fair, they were gentle compared to the
Jordanians and Syrians)

The awful thing here is that because he was not allowed to contact anyone,
there was no chance of anyone doing anything to help him, like notifying the
Canadian representation in New York. That is the most severe violation I see
the Americans guilty of. Deporting him to Syria is almost farcical. How can
they get it that wrong?

I'll be putting emergency rocedures in place with friends before my next
visit to the US. Not because I have contacts in Al Que'da, but because
bureaucratic bungling is a definite possibility. Especially when a nation is
conscious that they are under attack.

Pete.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: *** CONTRAST vs RESOLUTION for Telescopes REFRACTORS vs REFLECTORS ***
    ... >> Democratic governments behave lawfully, and respect those rights. ... This certainly is a departure from normal practice in the United States. ... American public is supportive of making sure that others who are likely ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: Were listening and were watching YOU!
    ... Actually, Beau I was educated in Pennsylvania, Florida and Texas. ... And your opinion - "My safety is more important than your rights" ... Yet you're completely ignorant of what it means to be an American. ...
    (rec.arts.poems)
  • Re: Were listening and were watching YOU!
    ... If you are an innocent American that doesn't ... "They don't have rights!" ... I was born in a country that was led by a repressive ... It leads to greed and corruption even worse than in a democracy. ...
    (rec.arts.poems)
  • Re: Lets debate it in Public!
    ... at the expense of True American Values at home and abroad. ... American Values, and take away our Government and our Rights, and not solve ... that it did not protect them, from the fact that rapes continue to be ... Why is it that only the criminals are allowed to use guns? ...
    (alt.politics)
  • Re: Hillary Compares Israel to Iran
    ... the President's memorandum with its intention to tie gay rights to ... foreign aid comes out of American taxpayer money, ... the federal government saying: The position of this religion is wrong: ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)