Re: change variables


"James J. Gavan" <jgavandeletethis@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ZVEtg.172609$Mn5.14073@xxxxxxxxxxx
dashwood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Alistair wrote:

Pete Dashwood wrote:


This discussion brings up something which I firmly believe is a problem
with the whole approach to procedural code: namely, maintaining code is
ALWAYS subject to the risk of introducing more errors into it. We can
mitigate this risk with good procedures (and professional care...), but
it is always there. Only when you DON'T maintain code, is there NO
risk.

That is one of the major factors that sold me on encapsulated,
non-maintainable, component based, systems.

Pete.

I've let it ride before but I have to disagree with you above.


You disagree that maintaining code introduces an element of risk?

Having met somebody in May who knows both Net Express and Fujitsu, I asked
the question, "Does Fujitsu have support classes ?". His answer, "No".
True or False ?

Are we on a different subject now?

Fujitsu certainly does have support classes but the term may not be used in
the way MF use it.

Fujitsu provides support classes for Database/ File access, Java,
Collections, ISAPI, SAF, and some other things that escape me at the
moment.

If True I can understand why early on you took the stance that you don't
need (support) source. If you haven't got it, then you can work around it.
While I don't endlessly spend my time going through the huge M/F support
class library there are times when you want to do something different.
That necessitates knowing what is in the M/F source to write your own
sub-class overriding an existing support class method.

Only ever did that once and had no difficulty. You don't need source to
override a method.

Normally, I don't override methods. If they don't do what I want, I simply
don't invoke them. I'd use a local method instead. But there are many ways
of doing things... and I might override a method. So please don't say at a
later date that I said I wouldn't overrride methods. I don't see things as
black and white as you seem to sometimes, and I do change my mind on
occasion. I tend to work to guidelines, but the immediate problem solution
has priority, so if it makes sense to do something that I usually wouldn't,
then I will.

So far, I have not maintained component code, though. I feel pretty strongly
about that one and it is one fo the main reasons I adopted components in the
first place.


I think the same logic applies to your not jumping over the moon about
Collections.

I have no idea where you get this stuff, Jimmy.

I use Collections in VB all the time and have done for many years now. Some
of the early components I bought were written in VB and utilised VB
collections. I don't 'jump over the moon' about anything computer related. I
see no point in developing emotional attachment to software :-) (now,
hardware, that's a different story... Enzo Ferrari lights my fire... :-))

Obviously I have approaches I prefer, like OO and components, and RAD and
Visual IDE, but I am not emotionally attached to any of them, and will use
whatever is available.


When Fujitsu was first issued as I recall a separate module for Collections
was available for about $1,000 - I think the package also included an F/J
Sort. Probably just like the majority you didn't shell out for
Collections - although they are now part and parcel of the current
NetCobol. (Does F/J now give the source for the Collection classes ? I've
seen the Collection demos from the on-line manuals, but of course they
don't make direct reference to any support classes - as far as I could
tell).

I use the Enterprise edition which has everything, including Collections. I
may be misunderstanding you here but I have never referred to the source of
the Collection Classes so I don't know if it is there or not. I use the
methods and they work.Hang on, I'll go and have a look...

OK, I checked and there is no COBOL source for these Classes. You simply
reference the Class under the REPOSITORY entry of your program, and set up
Object References for it in the usual way. All of the methods/properties are
well documented.

(Another example of something that doesn't need maintenance...Source code is
unnecessary.)


N/E V 3.0 didn't have anything for SQL as I recall - no big deal, just
ignore it. Now it has the DB module (ESQL Assistant), available from the
IDE - different story.

You're losing me. I can't see how no SQL support is NOT a big deal and I
certainly couldn't ignore it.

Now components. Fine, buy something which is up and running to do what you
want. As I recall your last message on the topic said you had bought three
Treeview Components.

I think I may have confused this with some active grid shopping I did. I DID
evaluate more than 20 different grid controls and ended up with 3 on the
shortlist. I finally bought 1.

For Treeviews...

No, I didn't necessarily BUY them (most come with software, so, although you
are paying for the software, you are not buying the TreeView as such), but I
do have a number of different TreeView components:

A quick search with an Object Browser (I used COM Explorer 2 for this)
reveals...

Fujitsu, ProgID=Fujitsu.PCOBTreeView.4
MicroSoft, ProgID=MSComCtlLib.TreeControl.2
MicroSoft, ProgID=ComCtlLib.TreeControl.1
Crystal Reports, ProgID=CrystalEnterprise10.ObjectTree.1
MicroSoft, ProgID=CTREEVIEW.CTreeViewCtl.1

There are probably others... I only searched registered controls, not .dll
or .exe servers.

So how much did the three cost you, and the other bit I'd like to know -

go figure... I didn't specifically buy any of them (as I did with the active
grid control). Obviously, they are not free because they come with software,
but I didn't actually pay anything for any of them, specifically.

the difference between Components A, B, C - what did each contain that the
others didn't.

No idea. The only one I've used is the first one and it met all my needs.

I know they all use the NODE class to load their data, and things like
icons, or coloured boxes can be added by setting a property. It is pretty
straightforward and I had it working in a couple of days. I did it all with
COM/OLE (invoking and setting methods and properties) and never had to go to
the level of actually building graphics, defining fonts, placing buttons,
etc. (that's what the control does).All that was necessary was to set the
hierarchic data into NODE (Class) instances, and invoke the LOAD method of
the control for each node (it was a PERFORM loop). Each line of the tree
(node) could be referenced individually if needed, and each node could set
an icon if needed. In fact, I could have set it up as a collection of nodes
and managed it all with collection instances, but there was no need to.
All-in-all, it was pretty trivial and I wrote an article about it which is
still being accessed, apparently.

The active grid stuff was much more complex and I sweated that for several
weeks. That may be why it stayed in my mind, and I was thinking of that when
you asked me about tree views.

I have been saying for some time now that people should explore their
computers... There are hundreds of very useful components and controls that
are sitting there.

Pete.








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