Re: [OT] Iraq

SkippyPB wrote:

But the job is done. The stated goal was to bring down Saddam and
bring democracy to Iraq. Both have happened.

But can that democracy remain if they do not have trained military and police force? Training those groups is a large part of our mission over there now. I personally know 3 people who are deployed to Iraq - one of them is there for a year, going from place to place training the military units on his job.

It is as clear as the
nose on most peoples' faces that a military solution in Iraq is not
now possible.

Of course - when all they hear are the Democrats saying that, after a while they begin to believe it. It's called the Big Lie - repeat something enough, and people start to believe it. With this administration not enunciating the problems clearly (as evidenced by Bill's question later in the thread), why would most people think otherwise?

Not today, not tomorrow, not 50 years from now which is
how long we'll be there if current policies prevail. There must be a
political solution and that can't be driven by the US. Only Iraq's
leaders can drive that car.

Tell that to the Democrats (and some liberal Republicans) - *they're* the ones demanding timetables of the Iraqi government. The military is there to help the process, and give them guidance. But, the legislation is theirs, the voting is theirs, and the enforcement is theirs.

You ask what happened in Vietnam? Yes, there was some massive
bloodshed among the Vietnamese in the south and the north. Had we
never interfered in their affairs, that would never have happened.

You don't think there would have been bloodshed when the North took over the South? There's bloodshed in China and Cuba *today* when we're not there.

And
what was the stated goal of our involvement in Vietnam? It was to
prevent southeast Asia from turning communist. The domino theory, as
it was known then, stated that if Vietnam fell, Laos, Cambodia and,
more importantly, Thailand would fall as well and Chinese Communists
would have a foothold on all of Southeast Asia. As we know now, it
didn't happen. Nothing even close to that happened.

Had they been unchallenged, and not forced to spend all the resources they did in taking over Vietnam, that very well could have happened. Even though Vietnam is considered an American military defeat, we held our ground long enough to slow them down.

You say, "if we fail this time" like we are actually winning
something. Sorry, we've already lost.

How can you say that? What have we lost? Saddam is out of power, there is a democratically elected legislature, they're making huge strides, and we're training them. The rape rooms are closed; the insurgents are nearly gone; the rule of law has replaced dictatorial fiat.

What exactly have we lost again?

Socialists in the Democratic Party? Where do you get this stuff and
how do you know they've always "hated" whose success and other stuff?
Just what are you talking about?

Where in our Constitution does it say that health care is a *right*? Where does it authorize the Federal government to run something like the Department of Education? Where is it written that it is the responsibility of the Federal government to bail out businesses who don't handle their books correctly, just because they provide a service that may have values to some Americans? Where are we authorized to pay farmers *not* to grow things?

All this social engineering legislation, welfare, government health care, is *all* socialistic. The Federal government should be about defense, infrastructure, limited guidance to states, and a representative of our nation to the rest of the world. Past that, it's overstepped its Constitutional charter and into socialism.

And if someone sees our success, and want to enact every piece of legislation they can to ensure it never happens again, what am I supposed to infer about their motives? They don't think it's *fair* that some people can afford health insurance and others can't. They don't think it's *fair* that some people drive giant vehicles while others drive smaller ones. And, they don't think it's *fair* that America has been, since the early 90's, the lone superpower in this world. They want us to give up our strength so it'll be more fair to other countries. Sounds like hating our success to me...

Well I'm glad the military has relaxed some of its restrictions on
what you can and cannot say and to whom.

Well, they're not all gone. Basically, as long as I'm clear that what I'm saying is my opinion, and not necessarily that of the Air Force, I'm within regs.

But to even talk about
dropping a nuke on anything is just a sad, sad thing and indicative of
the post cold war mind set. That's really not where society needs to
go.

Talk to Iran! We're aging ours out, they're building new ones!

Please. RPG's where not what GWB was going after. They were probably
left over from the ones we sold to Saddam back in the 80's anyway.

True...

The Al Qaeda that is currently in Iraq was formed there after the US
invaded and none of the hijackers trained in Iraq. Read the 9/11
commissions report.

The 9/11 commission's report is not gospel - they got some things wrong. They had an agenda.

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Relevant Pages

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