Re: help with tables

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:25:13 GMT, "William M. Klein" <wmklein@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Robert" <no@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:mkj3q3pmtvmn64pjnhk0s3mfcgplas1hcs@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:26:34 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@xxxxxxxxx () wrote:

In article <gfl2q319rd84spnb10q3f9huuvjq2254f9@xxxxxxx>,
Robert <no@xxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:37:24 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf@xxxxxxxxx () wrote:

In article <bav1q3t26jjt26156j9eh4lpp1ivtot9a0@xxxxxxx>,
Robert <no@xxxxxx> wrote:
<snip>

Now think of expanding your experience, Mr Wagner... and imagine that the
TEST TEAM (caps original) makes a copy of their documentation... and
returns it (in exchange for a signature, of course), to the programmer...

Tests plans and results, along with all other project documentation, reside in
a framework
repository that's accessible to everyone. There is no reason to print them
out.

who brings this stack o' foolscap along when he sits down with other folks
at a Prod Implementation meeting.

Our meetings are held in cyberspace using NetMeeting or similar. Participants
are all over
the world; they are not sitting in a room.

Moreover, the development team is often disbanded before the project goes to
production.
There is no reason for a programmer to be the project's advocate; that's the
job of
project managers.

Let me get this stratight, you are saying the development team gets disbanded
BEFORE the application has made it thru testing (by the testing team).

It's normal practice in ALL big companies where I've worked. There's no reason to keep a
team of developers who have nothing to do for two months. They do keep one or two, called
'fix it team', to fix defects found during testing.

By the same principle, they don't convene a test team until a week before testing begins.

No wonder that shop uses contractors, their management is REALLY screwed up. <G>

Contractors and employees both charge their time to project and activity codes. Each code
has a staffing budget.

The reason companies use contractors is not necessarily screwed up management, the reason
is bureaucracy. The bigger the company, the more time employees spend in nonproductive
meetings. It gets to the point where they don't have time to do their jobs. They can
handle routine maintenance, but not maintenance PLUS significant change. Meetings cannot
be cancelled because no single person is responsible for calling nor approving them. Most
meeting time gets charged to ongoing maintenance. When time spent on 'maintenance' becomes
excessive, the application becomes a candidate for outsourcing. Last week, my system and a
dozen others was outsourced for $100M/yr, a 20% saving to the company. The outsource
company deducts 20% profit, does the same work with (a) 60% of the people or (b) the same
number of people earning 60% as much. How? Mostly by eliminating time-wasting meetings,
including Team Building events. The losers are (a) 40% of former employees or (b) 90% of
former employees with a corresponding win for programmers in India.
.

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