Re: OT: Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back

Alistair wrote:
On 23 Feb, 23:17, "tlmfru" <la...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Wasn't talking about "man-made" GW. But "people" do really believe this -
just not enough of them and espeicially not the right ones. It isn't
cynical to say that as long as profits are threatened by taking anti-GW
efforts, none will happen. One very simple thing that everyone can do,
without affecting their lifestyle, is to dump all gasoline/diesel/propane
home & garden appliances in favour of electrically-driven ones. Lawn
mowers, garden tractors, leaf blowers, edge trimmers - etc., etc. (For my
fellow dwellers in climates with snow I specifically exempt snow blowers!)

PL

tim <T...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:13s0t5fmvg1bg21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:24 -0600, tlmfru wrote:
Well, if you think "global warming" is just a red-flag "loaded phrase",
let's hear your answer to the question:
Glaciers, sea ice covers, and ice caps are melting all over the world.
(Not
all of them, but most - over 70%, I'd say). See the February issue of
Scientific American. If it's not global warming that's causing all
this,
what is?
PL
If people believe Man Made Global Warming is true, why don't they do
anything effective about it? The Kyoto protocol will have a negligible
effect, and there has been little progress on a replacement treaty. A
reduction of 80-90% in carbon emissions by industrialized nations would be
required. This is what is needed to produce an overall 50% reductions
because 3rd world emissions are rising rapidly. To put this level of
reductions in context, 10% of your household electricity consumption
consists of appliances on standby.
If people really believed this, we would see radically different
behavior. Eg a massive switch to nuclear for electricity and
nuclear-generated hydrogen for transport. Greenhouse taxes to create the
right incentives across the economy.

When I was at school I was taught that any bio/chemical process was
inefficient and that by converting any thermal source to kinetic power
would, at best be 10% efficient. So, we use petrol to provide an
immediate source of power, loss 90% efficiency. If we convert nuclear
to heat to electricity to power we lose 90% converting nuclear to
steam, more converting steam to electricity, more carrying the
electricity through pylon cables and even more converting to power at
the users end.

All that you can possibly save on is pollution levels (non-CO2).

see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle>

<quote>

Efficiency of CCGT plants

By combining both gas and steam cycles, high input temperatures and low
output temperatures can be achieved. The efficiency of the cycles add,
because they are powered by the same fuel source. So, a combined cycle plant
has a thermodynamic cycle that operates between the gas-turbine's high firing
temperature and the waste heat temperature from the condensors of the steam
cycle. This large range means that the Carnot efficiency of the cycle is high.
The actual efficiency, while lower than this is still higher than that of either plant
on its own.

The thermal efficiency of a combined cycle power plant is the net power
output of the plant divided by the heating value of the fuel. If the plant
produces only electricity, efficiencies of up to 59% can be achieved. In the
case of combined heat and power generation, the overall efficiency can
increase to 85%.

</quote>

Jeff
.

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