Re: CoBOL and Contracting (Was: All X'0D' lost during...)
- From: "klshafer@xxxxxxx" <klshafer@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
On Aug 5, 1:02 am, Robert <n...@xxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "klsha...@xxxxxxx" <klsha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Also, there can be multiple posts by
multiple agencies for the same client slots. What to do in "choosing"
the "right" agency?
Apply to ALL the agencies. Maybe one will think you're suitable while the others don't.
I used to make that mistake. I'd see a good sounding job in Keokuk and think 'Oh, I
already applied for that job.' Yeah, but to a different agency. I once applied to five
agencies for the same job. One got me an interview; I didn't hear from the other four.
The agency will always call before submitting you. If another agency calls later, just
tell them you've already been submitted for that job.
Agencies will tell you double-submission is a mortal sin. Nonsense. If a client DOES see
the same person from two agencies, he'll keep the cheaper of the two and discard the
other. THAT's why agencies don't want you to do it.
Such are the problems of "going back to square
one." Soliciting repeat business and polling your informal network of
past co-workers avoids some of those problems, but doesn't always
result in a "hit". So we all need to have as many different "arrows in
our quiver" as we can manifest. What works for others might not work
for me, but hearing of what works for others can compensate for a lack
of imagination on my part.
It's a numbers game. The more eyes see your resume, the higher the probability of a hit.
This is helping me. In the past, my need for "approval" ;-)
predisposed me to listen to their pleas to avoid the double
submission. Without agreeing entirely with you, I can now see that
granting an "exclusive" to an agency is something that they should
"earn" from me, by providing me, uh, _some_ kind of consideration. (To
be defined.)
Granting an "exclusive" to an Agency is part of making them a
Preferred Agency. Having successfully placed me elsewhere might
qualify them; certainly having placed me multiple times should quality
one.
Beyond that, I see your point: Absent such qualification, submit to
them all, and let THEM and the CLIENT sort it out. :-)
For me, it took about thirty years to distill all this down to what I
call my Rules of Engagement. I've gone minimalist, reducing them to
two:
Rule 1: Rate and Terms are negotiable; professional courtesy and
respect are not.
How do you handle jerk recruiters? Do you hang up or do you play their silly game?
I don't know the right answer.
I don't know _the_ right answer, and I may not even know _a_ right
answer. I only know of some _vanilla_ answers. Do they work? Depends
on what you mean by "work." If we mean "Does it make me feel better?",
well then, yeah, here are some things that work -
1. Hang up on them (story below.)
2. Demote them (remove them from your Approved Agency list, and tell
them so.)
3. Tell all your friends/peers how jerky they are.
4. If otherwise un-engaged, bug them every day about the non-existent
position. This is an excellent opportunity to practice your "air of
incredulousness", a very useful tool.
5. Never bad-mouth them to a client or prospective client, for this
could be (albeit weak) grounds for a lawsuit. Instead, when asked by
the client, "What do you think of Agency X?", respond with "I've had
dealings with them, and there's really nothing I can say," and then
shrug. Practice doing that, in the one-in-a-thousand chance it will
happen.
6. Erase their phone messages. There is joy to be had in deletion.
The Story:
Several years ago, and it was after all, in the throes of the Great IT
Famine of 2001-2003, that I encountered an opportunity, and responded
over DICE, and was contacted by a Recruiter, for a position for which
I was a very good fit, according to the stated requirements. I set
forth my Rules of Engagement, and I recall she agreed, and then later
I heard nothing. Follow up e-mails and phone calls by me were in vain.
Then, a year later or so, the same Recruiter calls again, with exactly
the same Requirements. By this time I was working, and I so informed
her that I was no longer looking. She asked me for names and contact
info for anyone else I knew who was qualified, never offering me
anything, finders' fee, subscription to Dr. Dobbs, nada, in return. I
hung up on her.
Was I "educating her", or was I just *mean*? I'd like to think the
former, but sometimes I fear I was the latter...
Rule 2: In consideration of my submission of my resume, you will keep
me informed of all progress, or lack thereof, of my submission to your
client.
Some advise calling every other day for a progress report.
This might be a bit more often than I would do, and yet, entirely
reasonable. It's hard for me to guauge the length of each "window of
opportunity." Some recruiters claim it is only 48 hours. And yet the
decisions sometime take months, literally.
I now "require" an Agency to verbally agree to these before I e-mail
them my resume. I believe it is okay to be _insistent_, if what you
are insisting upon is eminently reasonable.
What should be emphasized here is that Agencies may "use" your
Resume / CV in any number of ways: for a specific submission for
specific slot to a client, to build their resume database, to include
in a fat proposal to a client under a section Our People, trolling for
skills / rates (as duly noted by DD to the job posts without rates),
and other reasons. So offering your Resume to the Agency is giving
them _something of value_ - it is not only reasonable, it is almost a
_duty_ to your fellow Contractor Peers, to require _something_ in
return. That _something_ should be the promise to _keep you informed_.
Can we think of anything else we could require in the "exchange"?
(I've not come up with anything else.)
Hadn't thought of that. It occurs to me that a "trade" could be in
order. To wit, post only your home/business landline phone on DICE/
Monster and your resume. Upon contact, express willingness to trade
your cell for their direct/cell.
Ask for the recruiter's direct phone number. If he can't or won't give it, he's either
working from a boiler room, fishing or calling from a shack in some third world country.
Some recruiters are themselves contractors. They're not at the agency and are not involved
with submitting you. They simply don't know about your progress. In those cases, you'll
often get a second call from the account exec or other agency rep. He's the one to ask
about progress.
It is increasingly difficult to find recruiters who have a face-to-
face relationship with the decision-makers. I usually ask, and I feel
I usually get an honest reply, which too often goes along the lines
of, "We work only off the list that their HR department faxes us every
week, and we submit only to their HR department. That's the way XYZ
Corp requires all the approves vendors to do it."
A recruiter/rep who golfs, bowls, fishes, or plays poker/bridge with
his client is now good as gold, even better. They are beyond Approved
Vendors. They are Platinum.
Ken
.
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- From: Robert
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