Re: cobol: it's everywhere... but going...Google Maps!

Robert/James/Pete,

Thank you for the feedback. I'll implement some suggestions, but this
does not include the removal of registration. If you are having any
problems with the registration process send me an email ( emersonlopes
at gmail com ) I'll try to fix the issue asap.

I apologize for the "engrish" usage in the site...english is not my
first language. If you see something wrong (grammar, for instance)
please let me know and I'll try to fix as soon as possible.

I agree that the "terms of use" text is too wordy. I'll try to put
this in plain english soon.

I've used a template to create the site, so I know that it has poor
usability, but the goal now is just to have a place where you can
download content and read basic directions. I hope to improve content
(and look and feel) in the next months.

There will be dynamic examples (including web services and OO Cobol +
Flex), but this is not a top priority for me at this moment. I'm not
selling any product or service, and I'm not making any money with this
work. This a private, non-funded project, so things will improve very
slowly.

I'm hardly protecting anything. The source code is available at
codeplex.com website (which does not require any registration). There
are things that I'm planning to do that will require user unique
identification (e.g. OO Cobol driving site personalisation). Better to
have this from the very first moment than impose such thing later.

Finally, the front page will change to a blog format, keeping a
history of things published in the site. This is something that will
take place this weekend, but the text "work in progress" will be there
for a long time...

Regards, Emerson







On Nov 17, 7:52 pm, "Pete Dashwood"
<dashw...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
James J. Gavan wrote:
Robert Doerfler wrote:
I would like to share this little example that I've created of how
to integrate Powercobol 5.x and Google Maps.

... We'd have to register !=  "I would like to share (...)"

Emerson,

Robert has a good point - it is a pain in the arse to have to register
for 'informative' sites.

I agree, it very often is. (I try to make it as painless as possible on the
sites where I need to get a registration from people, but there is always
some degree of inconvenience.)



I'm greatly irritated by sites that seem to feel it is necessary.

The problem is that if you are giving stuff away, you like to have a list of
people who downloaded it so you can update them or offer them something else
along the same lines in the future. (But the last thing you want to do is
bug them every five minutes with some "new"  product. I hate it when a site
I'm registered on sends me email about an "important" new product that is
not in the least bit important to me... :-))

 The problem often arises when web developers use "encapsulated" or
"pre-fabricated" registration components, without REALLY looking at what the
code does or requires, and are then at the mercy of what that code requires.
For this reason I write all site registrations from scratch, and have
complete control over how it works. If I find it unwieldy, I simply change
it. After having done a number of these over the years, I now have it down
to a fine art. To be fair, database manipulation on the web is not simple
for people who are used to a desktop environment, and, of course, any kind
of registration usually requires DB access. (I guess you COULD write a flat
file, but I can't think why you would do that...)

There is a balance between giving people open access to your site and not
knowing who did what, and getting them to register so you have at least an
idea of what they're after, and what they downloaded.

Many people share your frustration with Registration. The COBOL 21 site has
taken over 3000 unique hits, but only just over 100 registrations.

(I have never circulated the registration list with anything, but there are
some new freebies coming up, and these people will be the first to know....
:-))

Are> you like the others protecting the Crown Jewels ? Not your site
specifically, but this is the sort of nonsense you get :

(1) Enter a user name - response - "Can't use that, it's already in
use".

Using email is usually a good unique identifier, but this gets tedious to
enter. I usually offer a field where you can make up your own "shortcut"
identifier (people often use their initials or a nickname)  for commercial
sites, and logon with that.

(See  http://primacomputing.co.nz/BravadoAdmin/for an example of this, but
please don't visit this site unnecessarily. Please DO click the link on to
the Bravado public site. (I did the glowing logo for this... :-))

(2) Enter first and last names and e-mail address - that's OK if it
*IS* your intention to keep people up-to-date on changes to your
site. If you don't intend to keep them abreast of your changes, (by a
round robin e-mail list), then name and e-mail address are irrelevant.

There's a fine balance here. Most people don't want to be inundated with
promotional emails, just because they registered. I'm registered with a
certain site in Europe where I purchased some of their products on ONE
occasion 4 months ago. Now I get email from them EVERY other day, telling me
about free offers (that are NOT actually free because they charge a fortune
for "mailing"...). On the other hand, as you say, if people on the list are
NEVER mailed then there is little point in making them register.

(3) Enter Password - Question - 'Exactly WHY ?' - and in your case I
have tried to sign up TWICE and then when I Login, am informed
"Password is invalid", (AND I am aware of case sensitivity).

I agree entirely. It is really annoying when a site acts like "Nanny" and
decides they know what your password should comply with, and then write this
perception into software... It is MY password, if it isn't secure, that's MY
problem. (I take some care with financial sites, but other than that, if
someone gets my password, so what?) It isn't just case sensitivity, either;
some sites insist on a minimum length and a particular mix of characters....
I don't see the point. If you are going to make it hard for me to register,
guess what?

Take it
as read I wont be attempting to sign up for a THIRD time. Pity - 'cos
I'm interested in things OO COBOL.

Completely understandable.



If you insist on Passwords - let 'em key in what the hell they like -

Absolutely.

then store it in your records as UPPERCASE for verification.

Actually, I encrypt it before it is stored and case sensitivity is easily
dealt with after unencryption on retrieval.



I think you have gone over the top in all the caveats about using the
site. Howz about, 'This is a site for developers with samples of
source code, as is, without any warranties. Please use as you see
fit. When you use or pass the source on, kindly acknowledge where you
obtained the source from....".

I think that kind of decision needs to be made BEFORE even building a site.
It is good to have a clear idea of what your reasons are for building a Web
site, before you start. ANY Web site involves a fair deal of work, even
though the modern tools are getting better and better.

Many people seriously underestimate the work involved (not saying Emerson
did that...)

If you want people to download stuff, you don't really need a site at all..
All you need is a page with links, but that soon becomes extended to telling
people something about the things on offer, and, before you know it, you
have a Web site... :-)

In this specific instance, I went and had a look at Emerson's site.

I' m deeply sympathetic to ANYONE who is building a Web site so I try to
suspend judgement and just let it flow until I have a general feeling about
it.

Here are my personal opinions about this site (none of this is intended to
wound; hopefully, it may stimulate some needed review...):

1. I think all of Jimmy's criticisms are fair and accurate.

2. I like the colour scheme and the general clear and simple layout.

3. I DON'T like the pidgin English on the home page and it looks to me like
this template was made in China or somewhere. However, that is just a
personal thing which happens because I write a lot; many people really don't
care about how things are worded. For me, I simply leave ANY site where the
English is substandard. Publish in your native tongue, or publish in English
and get it edited by someone who is an English speaker.

4. I can't see ANY reason to make people register so they can provide you
with information that YOU want, like what kind of COBOL they are using. I'd
let them select the option. Perhaps you might only look at what they
selected when they register (to prevent people just frivolously clicking
radio buttons and skewing the result), but it is "unfriendly" to tell them
they can't vote unless they register, IF you put the poll right on the home
page.

5. I liked the statement that it is a work in progress and this deflected a
number of criticisms I would otherwise have made.

I skimmed through all the verbiage and legalese and I agree with Jimmy. This
is SO restrictive that I wouldn't even consider submitting code to it. More
importantly, this just lends an unfriendly and sterile atmosphere to the
whole site, which is unfortunate.

(It is pretty obvious that this is just boilerplate where they have replaced
a placeholder with "100 Cool things...."  The repetition was intensely
irritating. Using boilerplate like this sends a wrong message to your
visitors. If you "can't be bothered" to write something simple and
meaningful in this area, then why should anybody be bothered to search your
site and browse it? I'd replace this gobbledygook with a simple clear
English statement.)

The site is REALLY about a platform to show COBOL doing cool things. But
where are these cool things?  It says there are only a few so far, (fair
enough) but why isn't the "coolest" one in my face on the home page? The
idea is to show what the cool thing is (a demo is a good idea and an
interactive demo is a brilliant idea... seehttp://primacomputing.co.nz/cobol21/S2NTestServer.aspx), then, when they've
played with it a bit, if they are interested you can talk about downloads
and registration...

I'd really like to see much more being offered up front; stuff that will
engage people, and encourage them to dig deeper.

So far, it is going "nowhere"... :-)

Pete.



Jimmy, Calgary AB

--
"I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."

.

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