Re: Limited ;) marketing idea
From: Thomas J. Theobald (ttheobald2003_at_nospamplease.msn.com)
Date: 12/03/03
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Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:39:53 -0700
> You should know that if you want to learn the ins and outs of Delphi (or
any
> other programming environment for that matter), then the Personal edition
is
> completely useless. Have another look at the features matrix and you will
> see that you are completely out of line:
> http://www.borland.com/delphi/pdf/del7_feamatrix.pdf.
I started with the Standard edition in '95 and started a study group on
CompuServe to learn the ins and outs of it.
Did a pretty fair job at that time, as I recall. Can't see why it wouldn't
stand up now.
> > Second answer:
> > Let's say you work for a company that produces shrink-wrapped software,
> and
> > your P&L statement is tabulated annually.
> >
> > Now let's say you decide to give up a certain amount of revenue (i.e.,
> every
> > penny you make in educational sales). Just to give it away, in the
hopes
> > that a few years from now you'll have kids fresh out of college asking
> their
> > IT managers to buy your product.
> >
> > Are you willing to take the hit in your P&L right now for something that
> in
> > this industry is an unlikely return?
>
> Haven't you read what I have said in my message? My old engineering school
> has agreements with Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, etc. Now tell me which are
the
> leading companies? Borland??
Yes, it has agreements with MS, Cisco, Oracle - have you investigated those
agreements? I'd buy you a beer if they were found to be something other
than site licensing by your school on the educational programs of the
companies you mention. Profit and Loss is involved here, and the
educational editions are not insignificant to that calculation for any
corporation.
> > I know very few managers who'd be willing to listen to some pimply kid
> right
> > out of school who wants some silver bullet technology to make everything
> > easier. Even if the kid was right, IT has been burned enough by
> > inexperienced engineering staff that they just aren't going to listen.
> > There needs to be much more than "I used this in school, and it was
soooo
> > coool!" to convince them to drop several grand per seat, plus expenses
> > incurred during ramp-up.
>
> Again, out of line. You don't get the trust that Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco,
> etc. have in a matter of months. Let's be realistic. You have to gain that
> trust from your customers. Surely, the way Borland treats academia is not
> the way forward!
How does Borland treat acedemia? By making available versions of their
products that are discounted 60% or more. I'd call that a pretty good deal.
This is not an either-or, and Borland is not mistreating anyone.
> > The testimony of some students is not compelling enough to generate a
lot
> of
> > sales.
>
> Your views are too short sighted. Don't just look at the short term
> situation, think ahead. That's what big companies do and if you look at
> Microsoft, they seem to be doing a very good job at it! Don't get me
wrong,
> I am not endorsing them at all. As a matter of fact, I have been using
> Borland products for about 15 years and I have no intention of changing. I
> just wish that they had been more pro-active in the academic world, as
> Microsoft & co. have been.
I'm well aware of the long-term effects of having vast quantities of workers
available that can use one's products. However, I don't think you're seeing
the short-term impact that I'm trying to describe. When your group is
answerable for a certain percentage of a corporation's revenue, you don't
simply give up a chunk of it to see a questionable impact on the positive
side four or five years down the road.
And besides, as I mentioned before - Personal edition is quite handy.
Inexpensive, to boot.
You might also try calling a local Borland sales rep - I seem to recall they
had site licensing available for schools, though that may not have been in
the US.
> > The reason companies like MS and Oracle do this stuff is (a) they can
> afford
> > to sell it on the cheap to these institutions, and (b) it creates a
> > malleable workforce that can be hired, and their salespeople can point
to
> > that as a selling point.
>
> Sure, they can afford. No doubt about it. Yet, they started like Borland,
> i.e. small. They just happened to be willing to take risks and whether you
> like it or not, that has paid off.
They did not take these risks when they were small. They don't take them
now. Much of what you're referring to occurs because the institutions in
question site-license their goods. I don't know if you recall, but
Microsoft products were sold at an educational rate similar to Borland's -
and still are
(http://www.programmersparadise.com/Publisher.pasp?txtPublisherID=M47&txtAca
demic=Y).
> > While (b) would be useful for Borland, (a) is probably not applicable.
>
> (a) is not applicable, because Borland doesn't have the guts. Their
> marketing strategy has always been crap in my opinion, and I don't see it
> changing in the near future.
(a) It's not a question of guts, what you're referring to is a question of
wallet depth - which, even in the cases you describe at your engineering
school, even those corporations don't wish to explore.
You'll pardon me for pointing out that your opinion of a marketing strategy
is hardly expert.
T
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