Re: 64-bit Windows for AMD 64 is here...

From: Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) (rvelthuis_at_gmx.de)
Date: 03/13/04 

Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:01:09 +0100

At 23:38:17, 12.03.2004, Eric Grange wrote:

> > Some people prefer to work in Delphi rather than in C# or VB, or even
> > managed C++.
>
> That's a purely subjective argument.

The choice of language is highly subjective, indeed.

> Okay for hobby or small companies, but that's just about the extent of
> its reach.

Nonsense. Why should the choice of language be only restricted to hobby
or small companies? And why should that be different on .NET (where you
actually have a relative freedom) than on Win32?

Also, who are the people using Delphi (I mean those who used it before
.NET)?

> You'll find many more people that prefer VB/C++/C#,

Yes, of course. That has always been the case, also on Win32.

> if only because that's what they were taught, and what almost everybody
> else uses.

That argument falls a bit flat if you consider that
- VB.NET differs greatly from VB,
- Managed C++ differs greatly from C++, and
- C# is completely new.

Delphi for .NET, OTOH, does not differ greatly from Delphi for Win32. So
if you think that people use what they were taught, Delphi should have a
very strong point.

> > Some people prefer the richness of the Delphi language, and its
> > syntax.
>
> Purely subjective once against, and the "richness" is no longer above
> other languages. Syntax is just a matter of habit.

No, Delphi has quite a few features other languages don't have. I think
someone published a list (I'm not sure if Nick's list is online already).
 
> > Some people prefer to use the VCL instead of the rather limited
> > WinForms.
>
> Other won't have much choice: if they pick .Net for language
> interoperability, they'll have to go WinForms because VS.net doesn't
> know nothing about VCL.

Why? If I choose to develop in Delphi, why should I not be able to use
components written in other languages? You can use WinForms components in
the VCL. Others won't be able to use VCL components in VS.NET, but that
is only a problem if I try to sell VCL components, isn't it?

> And if VCL still has advatanges, it hasn't
> evolved significantly for a long time, which allowed or GUI libraries,
> like WinForms, to catch on for the most part.

Not nearly. Have you ever seriously used Delphi 8, VCL.NET and WinForms?

> VCL no longer dominates WinForms like it dominated VB3 UI or MFCs.

I think it does. WinForms is better than MFC, but it is not nearly as
rich or consistent as the visual part fo the VCL. This may change in the
future, but currently, it is inferior to the VCL.
 
> > Some people even prefer to reuse their existing library of code.
>
> That's not really an option with D8FDN, unless your libraries were
> ultra-basic.

Nonsense. I was able to reuse most of my code. And even if some parts
must be changed, it is a lot simpler than to rewrite all of it in C#.

> Also note that dynamically binding to DLLs requires a
> rewrite of the import units, and the new import units are much
> more complex to code.

Not true. You can usually go from the old import units, and modify them,
adding attributes where necessary, and replacing PChars with strings or
StringBuilders. Not that often the attributes repeat. It may look a
little complicated, but you'll see it actually isn't.
 
> > But people who don't see it that way should buy VS.NET, or whatever
> > suits their needs.
>
> If that's all you have in defense of D8FDN...

It is a lot, IMO.

> I remember a time when Delphi had strong leads over its competitors,

I think it still has, for the reason you mentioned: "leads which provide
objective, clear arguments to overcome the language and acceptance
concerns..." 

-- 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Many a man's reputation would not know his character if they met on the
street."
    - Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How can you drop Winforms support?
    ... Being able to use that shiny VCL Office 2007 Ribbon Bar from ... The support for WinForms in Delphi ... Get 3rd paty developers on board with a partner VCL.NET program with the idea of a coordinated release of the VCL.NET IDE and VCL.NET 3rd party ports to get an initial influx of the biggest 3rd party names. ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: My rant about the "throw out delphi and re-write it in C#" crowd.
    ... nothing out there that I've seen for WinForms that hasn't already been ... done to death by 3rd party vendors for VCL? ... thought we were talking about being able to port Delphi applications to ... Drop it on a Windows Form. ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: The New Roadmap
    ... WinForms is not my first choice for .Net UI apps. ... for the VCL since Delphi 1. ... VCL in both places where it makes sense. ... Why would you ever *need* to write a .NET GUI app? ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: 64-bit Windows for AMD 64 is here...
    ... > All that was demonstrated is that VCL.net is less capable than VCL ... than the rather poor WinForms. ... old Win32 API structures in an OO coating. ... I mentioned that one of the strong points of Delphi is is compatibility ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: The New Roadmap
    ... significant advantages. ... thing with different versions of the Delphi for .Net compiler. ... this will hold true with ASP.NET or WinForms ... Or, since development is continuing in both Win32 and .Net, use the VCL ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)