Re: The 64-bit Strategy Session commence.

From: Brian Moelk (bmoelk_at_NObrainSPAMendeavorFOR.MEcom)
Date: 06/10/04 

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:26:07 -0400

> It was a rethorical question.
> I was suggesting that there's not much perception left, except maybe the
one
> of a trial and error or something abandoned.

Every company has ventures that don't work out as well as planned.

> I think it mattes a hell of a lot.

I think it matters more in terms of freedom/choices than the actual reality
of what people choose. IOW, many many shops are mixed Windows/Linux/Unix;
it's mostly for insurance than actually what is used.

> Put yourself in the position of somebody that has to write something that
> runs cross platform. The client can be written in Delphi and, since
clients
> are Windows, that is ok. Now let's get to the server side... What
technology
> should I use? Kylix? Hmzzz... No updates for a year (at the best), no sure
> future. Java: is here, works, I can use SOAP to talk to my Delphi client.
> C#, kinda the same and it works on Linux too and it has Novell' s backup.
> CBX. Definitely something worth exploring, since LInux is a C land. Maybe
> there are better choices than Kylix.

Sure there are *better* choices than Kylix, the whole point is that you can
still get to Linux so it makes choosing Delphi for Windows less risky than
before. Certainly if cross platform is the *most* important thing for you
C++ or Java are the safest choices by far.

> And this flop is not the only piece of evidence we received of a less-good
> Borland (compared to the old times in which value for the buck was much
> higher). Remember the comments and problems arised after C#B and CBX? How
> about the 2+ years to get a D7 patch. How do you think the IW users feel
> after seeing no IW in D8? How about no ADOExpress? Should I add more?

Understood, there are many rough edges that could/should be ironed out.
Again, I don't know of any vendor that doesn't have rough edges....including
many of the vendors I use. <g>

> [..]
> > Agreed...but you don't think AMD64 is a good market for them? It's
> > virtually the same market...in fact it's more like the 500hp hot rod
that
> > you alluded to later in this thread. <g>
>
> Not at all, at this point in time. 64 bits is just a promise at this
point.
> Majoity (HUGE majority) of people still runs 32 bits.

Sure but that is going to change. It's the same discussion as when Delphi
for dotNET was being advocated: dotNET adoption rate, when do you release a
product, etc. IIRC, you stated that Borland was much too late to the party.
How long do you think Borland can wait without being late to the 64 bit
party?

> And no, it's definitely not the same market of the 500hp car we were
talking
> about and has nothing to do with that example/context.

I was just kidding about that.

> > > Maybe. I surely ain't that patient ;-)
> > Indeed.
>
> But luckily we have options <G>

Certainly, it doesn't matter for us...but we are discussing Borland and
Delphi.

> [..]
> > > Then they should use Java.
> > But Java isn't that great....<g>
>
> It sucks, but surely is a safer choice for cross platform.

No question.

> > If Linux represents your "backup" plan in case MS decides to leverage
> their
> > market dominance in price....perception of fear is important too.
>
> And what if things just remain what they are now instead?
> BTW, I just got my MSDN universal with a crap load of licenses of
everything
> for 375$. Beat that.

I'm not saying that I'm worried about it, I'm simply stating that it is a
concern within the industry.

> [..]
> > I do think all is not lost and will greatly depend on D9 however.
>
> Agreed.
> I wasnt trying to say Delphi's done (yet). Not a chance.
> My point is that Borland had great times, had its niche, then had a very
> long and very bad period which IMO we're not out of yet.
> D9 might really change things. And if not D9, D10. Till there's life,
> there's hope.

I would agree, there needs to be another bold and strong move IMO. 64bit
would be a bold and strong move.

I think we are in agreement in that quality is important;
implementation/execution is a huge factor. I do think straightening out
their existing products is a must, but I also think they need to make bold
and strong moves towards the future to recapture the hearts/minds of
developers.

> > [..] What do you suggest in terms of ROI for
> > Borland? Making Win32 even better where they are clearly the dominant
> > player? How will they get more of that market?
>
> Make the majority of your customers happy, like it has always been.

I think you also need a strategy to grow your customer base too, however in
their case if they don't finish/add/polish their existing products they'll
lose their existing customer base.

> 64 bit is not the way *at this point in time*, IMO, with all the other
> things that need to be finished or added.
> That's all I am trying to say.

Will it ever be? If so, when?

> They do and they have known for a long time (see Roadmap).
> We respect their investment and don't let them wonder in the dark.

Your ROadmap shows where your company is headed, but that doesn't really
answer my question. Heck, RO currently supports Kylix and I know that you
don't think Kylix is a good choice for crossplatform development, or there
are better choices.

What I would like to know is where *you* believe the future of Delphi is
going, this is what I'm talking about, *your* vision because IMO your vision
will shape where your company focuses it's efforts going forward.

One last question: why did you decide to support Kylix at all in your
product? Certainly you have had to make some sacrifices (testing costs,
etc.) in order to do so, so why was it the right business strategy? 

--
Brian Moelk
bmoelkNO@SPAMbrainendeavorFOR.MEcom
http://www.brainendeavor.com

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