Re: Delphi 8 vs Visual Studio

From: David Smith (david_at_nowhere.com)
Date: 06/26/04 

Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 01:32:00 +0300

Brian Moelk wrote:
>>You can call it whatever you want. Things have changed since I started
>>in the university. Then it was about learning computer science and
>>programming. They chose the languages from the teaching point (a Lisp
>>derivative).
>
> And you can't learn those things teaching Java or C#?

It's a known fact that other languages are better suited for teaching
than others. You can teach many things with Java and C#, but there are
better languages.

>>Nowadays it's probably all Java and the main reason is that students
>>might need it in their next job and some people seem to think it's good
>>enough.
>
> Or perhaps they are teaching things that are relevant computer science
> concepts for how the industry has changed?

Yes, some things have changed. E.g. pointer arithmetics aren't so
important anymore and OO concepts are needed. But you can teach all of
this with e.g. object pascal. And with a easy, clear and consistent syntax.

>>I'd much rather see them teaching with best teaching language
>>and get the students *really* learn the basics. They can always learn
>>the java class librarys later, if they need to.
>
> Ask the students which language/tools they would want to learn.

Here you are very wrong. If somebody in the university level starts to
teach what students want, then they are truly on the wrong path.

E.g. in my university there was a database course, where we were using a
small, fast and SQL-standard compliant DB, but some students started to
complain that why aren't we using e.g. Oracle. As our professor told
them there are very many educational and practical reasons to use the
one we were.

If the students, who don't know any better, would be let to decide, it
would be all Java and Oracle. Just because they think it would be more
useful for them, but there are wrong. It's all about the CS concepts.
Learn them and you become a professional. And professionals get job offers.

David

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Learn how to program
    ... Java, C# and VB.NET are horrible teaching languages. ... is teaching how to use those languages in particular. ... To the list of high-level dynamic languages for teaching programming, ...
    (comp.lang.ruby)
  • Re: [OT] COBOL
    ... The variants of Pascal that are used in practice ... widely-used programming languages, like C++, Java, ... ... used Pascal for a few years, and decided it was a disservice to the students, since, as ... Real World are written in COBOL, 10% in FORTRAN, and the rest in other languages" was true ...
    (microsoft.public.vc.mfc)
  • Re: Delphi 8 vs Visual Studio
    ... >> And you can't learn those things teaching Java or C#? ... > It's a known fact that other languages are better suited for teaching ... You can teach many things with Java and C#, ... Is it possible that some students will actually learn more if they are ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • RE: First Programming Course Opinions Please
    ... Writing algorithms with a tool like pseudocode, flowcharts, etc ... and the remaining assignments coded once in the students language of choice. ... Languages are VB.Net and either VC++.Net or Java. ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb)
  • Re: Interesting article by Joel Spolsky: The Perils of JavaSchools
    ... >>> There are some things that Java doesn't do, ... that are teaching Java AND NOTHING ELSE. ... awkward unpopular languages happen to be better at teaching ... >> to recursion, Java does not do proper tail recursion. ...
    (comp.programming)