Re: Chrome - competition for Borland?

From: Bob Dawson (RBDawson_at_prodigy.net)
Date: 11/07/04 

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:50:07 -0600

"Alexander Adam" wrote
>
> I was wondering wether why one would use Delphi2005 over C#? C# is the
> system language of .NET and very well thought trough.

According to AH, the C# language was specifically designed so that a C/C++
programmer would feel comfortable in it, so although in some ways it's quite
nice, in more ways it carries forward a lot of C's historic
baggage--specifically the tendency to privilege conciseness over
readability. One new thing that C# got wrong entirely (IMHO) is the
elimination of distinct interface/header and implementation sections--that's
something that's helpful for a programmer and only inadequately compensated
for by codefolding.

Such details aside, it remains that C/C++ and VB have always been more
popular than Delphi. If a programmer prefers Delphi in Win32, I see no
reason why that preference shouldn't extend into .NET, where
interoperability is much improved as a result of the IL core, and so the
disadvantages of being in a 'non-dominant' language are greatly reduced.

> How about interfaces
> in D2005 (.net)? Are they as easy to use as in C#?

In .NET interfaces have the same lifetime semantics as objects, so I find
them much easier to use than in D.win32. There are still some rough spots
in D8 (like lack of 'implements'), but C# interfaces have infelicities as
well.

> How does Delphi2005
> support namespaces and embedded namespaces?

I understand that multi-unit namespaces are in (see the feature matrix).
Don't
know what you mean by embedded namespaces. Nesting?

> Also note that most of 3rd party
> controls for .NET are written in C#, so it's much more effective beeing
able
> to do C# than Delphi

I don't see how the conclusion follows. Most win32 3PC tool sets were
written in C/C++ I believe, and generally can't be used at all other than as
ActiveX controls or dll imports. But in D8 and C#B I have the ComponentOne
Studio. Why would having access to a wider market of tools than ever before
be a disadvantage?

> and the VCL which will be obsolete one day anyway (Avalon).

Avalon is meant to replace WinForms, not VCL.NET. And even WinForms will
probably be supported for years. Abandoning the VCL because MS may introduce
a new GUI layer that the VCL may or may not adapt to sometime in the next
decade seems very fuzzy thinking to me. I need to make a living between now
and the general market acceptance of Avalon--a date even farther into the
misty future.

> The Win Forms is well tested and integrated, the VCL isn't (on
> .NET).

Tried WinForm for performance? <g> While the .NET library is vast, I don't
see that it forces or even encourages Delphi programmers to throw out their
existing toolset. This is simply an area where a Delphi programmer has
access to more tools than a C# programmer does. Again, how is that a
disadvantage?

> Also Delphi will always be one step behind, e.g. V C# lets me already
> use the .NET 2.0 Beta.

That argument isn't new, or different than the situation in Win32. I have
the VS2005 beta--but I'm not writing code in it for distribution. By the
time I'm ready to do that, I expect Delphi to be ready for me.

> But for .NET, C# just does better.

Permit MS to disagree--they seem to think that many different languages can
validly target .NET -- they sell four themselves (Managed C++, C#, J#, and
VB.NET).

And permit me to disagree. I certainly think it's an advantage for a .NET
programmer to be able to read C#--just like it was always an advantage in
Win32 to be able to read C/C++. But I don't see that as imparting to C# any
sort of universal advantage for most programmers, and especially for
programmers already very proficient in Delphi and using the VCL.

bobD

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