Re: Like I said...

Ryan McGinty wrote:

> You CAN NOT make really flexible feature
> rich apps running a unidirectional database connection. You can't
> get live updates of data, notifications, centralized complex logic,
> etc from a regular database connection these days - and even if you
> do, then you are tied to a specific database for these features

You seem to be saying that using TS/Citrix to solve some problems
prevents you from having a middle tier in your C/S solution. It
doesn't.

> I said yucky on stored procedures because
> b) it is all SQL based and the things you can do are very limited

Not as limited as you may think. Just not the way you're used to doing
them. You can do some /amazing/ things with SQL's SET based logic, and
/fast/ performance since it's right there in the DB engine. But SQL
coding past the basic uses SELECT/INSERT/UPDATE can get tricky.

> c) they are a pain to update (not like copying a new exe).

Ok, I don't follow this. Running a script to update hundreds of stored
procedures on dozens of databases is *much* easier and typically faster
than copying a single EXE to a workstation.

> Can you access regular $50 USB scanners via TWAIN in an app shared
> like that? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm actually curious as
> this has been an issue for us in the past with regular TS and
> Citrix...

No, you cannot. One major disappointment of TS/Citrix is that it only
supports character device drivers, not block device drivers. And this
is a major limitation for our customers. For our customers using
TS/Citrix, we have to install one PC that accesses our middle-tier over
the WAN if the customer wants scanning capabilities.

> Properly designed, the app is self maintaining by sending it's own
> updates to the clients. Again, you can only do this with middleware
> - you can't really transfer large files with a database-only
> connection.

Again, what?!? Aside from the debate of BLOB storage in DBs (which I
won't go there), we have hundreds of various DLLs (most are report
plug-ins) stored in our database. Our product /does/ have a middle
tier. But we could transfer these binaries to our client even if we
didn't have a middle tier.

> But, I think you are missing my point (or maybe I just haven't
> explained it properly). Even if you ARE using Citrix application
> mode on your app in a completely enclosed LAN, you STILL have no
> flexiblity in your programming design if you are accessing a database
> directly.

But you don't HAVE to access the database directly!

> There are SO many more options that can be done using a
> centralize running app. Exchange uses middleware, BizTalk uses
> middleware, StarTeam uses middleware, and basically anything that has
> a server running that the client connects to.

And even more options if you combine Citrix with your middle tier.

> I'm not saying that Citrix isn't cool, I'm saying that it is not an
> applicable replacement for the features and benefits of middleware
> that I feel are the most important ones.

Ok, that's a statement I'll agree with. :)

--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
http://www.medevolve.com
.

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