Re: Borlands linux strategy ?

Give me a break, it's not my *mentality* that keeps Delphi a niche
product,
I've been advocating Delphi's mainstream use for years. Is Visual Studio
a
marginal play?

Sorry, it's the general mentality of Borland, and reinforced by users who
believe that Delphi should just remain a windows platform tool. Is VS a
marginal play? Ultimately, maybe it will be because win developers will have
to consider delivering good solutions instead of just good windows
solutions. If Borland can't make any money outside of the windows market,
then MSFT sure as hell can't 10 times over. Windows-dictated tools are good
for providing windows solutions. What's the market for MSFT windows specific
solutions now versus 10 years from now? What's the market for non-MSFT
windows specific solutions now versus 10 years from now?

The bottom line here IMO, is that times have changed and development
models
are becoming more diverse. It's nearly impossible to have a single
product
address every need of the entire development landscape and address all of
them well. Do you honestly think that Linux and something like MacOSX
will
make Delphi a mainstream product? I don't.

For those platform markets? Very possibly yes. But of course those platform
markets are not mainstream and windows is. Feel free to continue exclusively
developing for what MSFT has made the mainstream, but let's see if MSFT's
model will continue to provide you the same amount of opportunity over the
next few years.

Further, what you're stating is simply not true. I could go to java for
instance, but really believe that Delphi could be a more productive
cross-platform tool, and Borland could be a leading provider of tools for
developing solutions that give me an opportunity to make money in any
market, not just MSFT's. Writing "platform-specific" apps obviously helps
MSFT more than it does us; I mean that's their whole hook.

I know, I know...software as a service. ;)

Sorry, maybe I'm wearing this out, but this is a real opportunity for
Borland. Most topics that aren't D.net get a fairly short attention span
around here.

But I strongly disagree with the aversion to the "target specific mode"
comment. Tools only reach their full potential when they have a specific
purpose and *can* target those solutions directly.

When I want to put a nail in something, I use a basic hammer, not one of
those multi-purpose thingies:

So let's take the user interface issue away, what platform specific code are
we talking about? If it's processor optimizations, then fine, good point,
but that is processors, not OS's, and the Fastcode model could work well
here. An app I can think of that needs to seriously take in platform
specificity would be a db server, but I don't write db servers, I just want
to provide high-level comprehensive solutions.

I admit Tibco GI looks nice, but it also *starts* at $25,000
(http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3548241). Hardly
something I would call a mainstream play.

Given. The rumor is though, $500 with unlimited deployment starting with
version 3.1, which is in beta right now. What's really incredible about this
tool is that there's **no** backend deployment. No other rich client toolkit
that I know of can make that claim. Added note: so now MSFT is jumping onto
the ajax bandwagon by combining some new ajax tool with .net. What value
does .net add to ajax, a cab file to deliver the js in? I don't want to be a
yahoo here; I'm sure MSFT can add some kind of value, but once again,
platform specific value is in the end more valuable to MSFT, not us.

That's my point: .NET all the way through; and you're even throwing mono
out. Delphi is a Windows development tool; it supports MS technologies.

What about the Delphi concept is Windows specific? What's pathetic is that
Delphi is under the thumb of a platform that it has truly innovated for, and
continues to do so. Once again, Delphi good, platform specificity bad.

Sure, that is *one* software strategy in a very diverse landscape. There
are also profitable companies functioning that are quite different. Such
as
the Micro-ISV that deliver rich clients to a mainstream market that plain
old Delphi Win32 is by far the best tool IMO.

This an either/or issue because Borland apparently can't afford to just do
what FPC has done. Develop exclusive for win using Delphi if you want, but
this isn't even a good way to make money if you limit yourself to the win
platform. You'd be better off getting an MCSD for Biztalk consulting or some
such. Not a thing wrong with that.

If Borland wants to leverage Object Pascal (i.e. the Delphi language) to
support that development model in a separate product that's fine, although
I
don't think that's the best strategy for a mainstream play.

Platform specific thinking. That's right, OP and a non-interface component
set could be peeled off with os specific defines, which would be great
start. The dev platform could still be windows. The bigger picture is moving
from a company that provides windows solutions tools, to a company that
provides solutions, period. The ECO concept seems to me to be universally
useful. Why not really make it so?

IMO, Borland has done quite well financially by supporting MS
technologies.
It's foolish to want 100% of a tiny pie, when 15% of a huge pie ends up
being more in the end. IOW, I would have no problem lining the coffers of
a
partner if I was going to get more in the end. Anything else, IMO, is
just
foolish pride.

I agree completely. Except you think the pie is provided by MSFT only. I'm
talking about the whole pie, which is not MSFT. It's mature geographic
markets and emerging geographic markets. I want to make calls on windows
shops, linux shops, whatever, wherever. I just want a chance at the money.
BTW, you support Borland via Delphi. I'd like to know the percentage of jobs
that Borland Consulting does that involve using Delphi.

and Borland will have missed this opportunity.

How? Delphi *is* the main player in the Pascal market. What opportunity
is
Borland missing here?

Delphi is the only player in a mature windows pascal market. Maxed out share
of a maxed out market. Find a savvy investor who will tell you otherwise.
This is why Delphi could not be sold at good value if Borland chose to spin
it.

Sure...all very interesting projects...how many make any money? What is
their marketshare penetration? I don't see those projeccts targeting any
market that is mainstream at all.

The situation is emerging, I admit, but what's important in the end is the
commercial success of our solutions (and services!) 5 years down the road.
So why hobble yourself with a dev tool that's not mainstream (Delphi), if
the mainstream (Windows) is your sole focus?

James


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Borlands linux strategy ?
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