Re: Visual Studio 2005 Express in now permanently free...

"Benefits" are a relative thing. If I don't need or use something then
it's not a benefit, it's just marketing. Of the many VS2005 users I know
no one uses J#, Managed C++, VWD, etc. Obviously people do use those
features, but they are specialized and don't really offer anything extra
to your basic shareware desktop app developer. I wouldn't consider VB a
benefit either *grin*. Those benefits you listed are about as exciting to
me as ECO, Together, IntraWeb, StarTeam, Caliber RM intergration. I don't
use those either.

It was about options, a category where BDS falls short of VS2005. Not
everyone is using C++Builder, or Delphi.Net, or ECO, or IntraWeb, etc. Your
point being?

Borland has never and will never offer a Personal/Foundation edition of
their products with ECO, Together, IntraWeb, StarTeam, or CaliberRM
integration; much less any edition of those products. The personal editions
lacked any database functionality whatsoever, and didn't allow you to
distribute your applications commercially; there was also a nag screen in
Kylix if the program was run outside of the IDE. Does that matter to
shareware developers? You bet. Given the fact that BDS is, IMO, horribly
overpriced when you look at that portion of the market; in comparison to
Visual Studio 2005.

When has Borland ever distributed a version of their Database with their
Personal level offerings? Oh, yea... They've never tried because they
stripped all of the DB functionality out of them.

The only Personal offering that Borland has worth its salt is JBuilder
Foundation. I don't want to even start on why/how I detest Java, though.

Comparatively, VS Express does in fact offer more options for the
hobbyist/shareware developer. More than even the higher levels of BDS
functionality due to the fact that hobbyist/shareware developers won't even
use half of the functionality included in the higher level SKUs of either
products.

SQL Server Express doesn't belong in your list as a VS benefit, it's no
more a selling point for VS than it is for BDS. It's not like it
magically works better with VS than it does with BDS.

As I've stated, Borland has never distributed a toned-down version of their
DB with their free versions, ever. The best you could do was a trial that
expired.

As a long time user of both Delphi and VS I disagree. There where many
high profile bugs in VS2003 that they never fixed. Even when I could see
the bug inside of Reflector it was frustrating because I couldn't fix it,
where even though sometimes we don't get offical updates as often as we
might like we do get unoffical source patches from Delphi engineers or
people that seem to know the VCL better than anyone at Borland. I'd give
them both a B- actually in getting fixes out.

I disagree. Borland is terrible at delivering products in comparison to MS.
Look at C++Builder 6. How many bugs are in BDS2006 that have been there
since years ago? How many open QC reports form years back that are still
affecting users of their newest developer system?

The general consensus is that large projects such as these IDEs are going to
come with bugs, it's inevitable. ITA with that. What separates one vendor
from the other is how they go about addressing these bugs. This is the area
where many have a problem with Borland. If you wish to have your tools
remain viable on the Enterprise scene, then it's unacceptable that people
put their work on hold/work around bugs/downgrade to old versions while you
make them wait 4-6 months for an Update. It's nice to get them all lumped
into one download, but aren't all these updates cumulative anyways?

*chuckle* it's funny, I read similar sentiments about VS2005 the week it
came out. Even from a lot of Microsoft bloggers saying they were sorry
for releasing such a shoddy product. I know people that *hate* VS2005,
calling it crappy buggy betaware, yet others hold it up as some kind of
programming miracle. It just goes to show that your mileage definitely
varies.

Yes Mileage varies, but Microsoft has never released a product in a box
named after a Technology preview component of that development system. They
do Beta's, and expressware, and they deliver the bug fixes as they are
fixxed. Contrary to what Borland is doing. Borland's methods are
inefficient, and I'm suprised they haven't addressed this. Microsoft has
been updating this way since Windows 98. Lessons are that hard to learn? I
hope not.

Personally I enjoy both IDE's. I have used both forever and have found
that they both have some glaring holes and strokes of genius. Their
features sets are comparable and I have a wishlist a mile long for both
sides. I do agree that there needs to be a starter version in the
$300-400 range for Delphi though. That seems to be the sweet hobby spot.
If people can plunk down $350 for a digital point and shoot for their
vacation photos they should have no problem paying the same for Delphi.

I don't Enjoy Delphi's IDE as much as VS2005, or VS2003 for that matter.
No. VS2005 starts up in 6'ish seconds. Delphi, 30-40'ish. VS2005 has less
things that get in the way. The perspective system they ripped off of
Eclipse is nice though. Their dependence on 3rd parties? I have no problem
with integrating 3rd party software, but make sure it at least offers the
features you put on the feature matrix (hihi IntraWeb). But it's okay. We
can patch in 4-6 months and then it will be just fine and dandy.


.

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