Re: Article: - David Intersimone on DevCo, the viability of Delphi, and Turbo Ruby

I.P. Nichols wrote:

"Paul Nichols (TeamB)" wrote:

If DevCo was really smart, I would forget trying to compete in well
rounded
circles and start offering something new. No, I would not drop my current
revenue streams, but face it folks, the future is not with the past.

A Killer IDE, IMHO, would be an Ajax IDE that was as RAD as Delphi/BCB
but which could be used with Java or NET. That would give them potential
to a very LARGE market, one that currently has little to no coverage at
all.

Get the JUMP on all COMPETITORS, NOW. DO NOT WAIT FOR MS...

Not to rain on your parade but here are some things to research before
jumping into the deep end of the pool.
http://atlas.asp.net
The Atlas framework is said to integrate with the IDE of Visual Web
Developer Express to facilitate RAD Ajax development.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/vwd/
Plus the yet to be completly unveiled Expression Web Designer
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/web_designer/default.mspx

I can name just as many for Java as you did for NET. But all of these are
not truly RAD. Have you ever tried to debug Java Script? Have you ever
attempted to do a Object.[Get a List of methods, vars] in Java Script?

That is what Borland needs to do. Make a VCL type of Ajax IDE, that will
work with:

Java
Net
Php

That is what I am talking about. Not some plugin that lets you drop a few
GUI Controls onto a form and MANUALLY code, decode (from some stinking Java
Script debuggers like MS' Debugger or even Mozilla's JS debuggers) and work
and work and work all day to build a simple GUI.

I work with Ajax almost full time now, so I know what is out there. The libs
are good (prototype, scriptaculous, Rico, etc) but there is no true RAD way
of creating a really useful Ajax app. Sure, I can use Java Studio Creator
(Java way), or Open Lazlo, or DWR and drop some components onto a form, set
some JavaScript events and put out a very basic HTML Ajax powered
application in say an hour or two and pat myself on the back. But is it
commercial quality? No way!

Just to do a Dashboard using the current best way (write Java Script run a
hundred times and debug all of the time) took me about 45 hours. That is
one freaking screen (yes it is complex, offers auto updating with the
database sync, drag and drop, edit in place and close portlets to be
discarded and saved as user profile). With JBuilder using Swing, Delphi or
BCB, I could have written the GUI in less than a Day. Give me a whole week
for the Alpha version of the project and I would be good to go. Give me a
little more time (60 hours) and I could have written the entire dashboard
(from and back end) in a traditional Web manner. With the current Ajax
tools, it takes 40-60 hours just to write the GUI.

I can write the back end logic three times faster than I can the GUI. That
is the old Windows way, back before tools like Delphi and VB (think C/C++
without the RAD or Object Pascal for Windows). What the world wants and
needs is a really RAD Ajax builder, with integrated Java Script and a Java
Script Object inspector and built in debugger. Would the dev world pay for
something like this? You better believe it. I would be the first in line.

Funny thing is, years ago, Borland had something close to this (without
Ajax). Intrabuilder had some ability to RAD Java Script. SO the know how
used to be there.

So I am not speaking of some run of the mill current tools that get you half
way there. I am speaking of something RADical, like Delphi and VB were in
the Windows world. A full RAD system.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Article: - David Intersimone on DevCo, the viability of Delphi, and Turbo Ruby
    ... A Killer IDE, IMHO, would be an Ajax IDE that was as RAD as Delphi/BCB ... I can name just as many for Java as you did for NET. ... Have you ever tried to debug Java Script? ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
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    ... A web app I am considering writing would require an embeddedclient side app which would need to talk to a webservice to fetch / update data it presents. ... The embedded app would need to work in various browsers and on different OS's so I think a Java Applet or Flash would be a good choice, all it needs to do is to present diagrams and allow the user to modify them. ... Ajax requires no download, so you do not have to worry about the user needing the rights to install anything. ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: We need Grasshopper for Delphi!!
    ... All this hinders RAD. ... You can use your Delphi OOP experience (especially if you ... > reconcile with the concept of RAD and of a GUI builder. ... I actually started a project to convert Delphi code to Java Swing. ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
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