Re: .NET 3.0 Final


"Jim Dodd" <bcbuilderboy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4550e281$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Nathaniel L. Walker wrote:
Welcome to last month,

What was true last month is still true. The "fixes" to Visual Studio are
still not out.

and I'm not sure what that's supposed to
mean in response to what I wrote. You're not dumping on
Microsoft, you're just overstating a misunderstanding..


Just like a lot of folks do - perhaps the blogger at MSDN was also
misunderstanding.

I've read many blogs at MSDN that outlined what the problem with
VS2005 on Windows Vista was. There are also many people who
are having much success developing on Vista for Vista with Visual
Studio 2005. Next time quote more.

It sure would be nice, though. I'll bet you'd be happy with Borland/DTG if
they told you Highlander had to run on Windows XP.

If that was the case, then there would be no Visual Studio 2005, because
it was released before Windows Vista was available. But the IDE will
have support for Vista development, which means that Visual Studio
developers can start migrating their applications to Vista now (if they are
comfortable using CTP releases) without looking through piles of documen-
tation and hacking in API calls like in those articles. It's called RAD for
a
reason.

Then again wouldn't bother me becuase the Hylander development
environment has no native support for Windows Vista development AFAIK.

Of course, this is one of the big reasons for upgrading to Vista -
security.

Which is why waiting for a fix is no big deal. Vista was a huge update
to Windows and change alot of things WRT security, but saying Visual
Studio 2005 does not run on Vista is incorrect, cause I have it running
in VMWare. Microsoft just needs to patch it to account for the security
features (which are not available in XP, but that's a given).

Yes, this is too bad. I am not happy about that, either.

Visual Studio 2005 not working on Vista has nothing to do with it
or Visual Studio 2005 not being ready, it is because of changes in
the operating system that affect certain tasks that need to be
accomplished
by developers and the tools they use.

Yes, this is why a lot programs don't work correctly when a new operating
system comes out. People like you make a big deal when it happens to
Borland. How is Borland supposed to handle this when Microsoft itself
cannot handle it?

People like me? No offense but people like you always come and try
to turn a civil discussion into a flame war. I won't be baited by such a
snide remark. Borland doesn't have to handle anything, their tool does
not directly support Vista (and you know what I mean by "support"),
and that was the only thing I was wondering about until "people
like you" jumped in and decided to ASSume what my intentions are.

The answer is because Borland has to make money on their development tools
and Microsoft does not. Nor does it want to. It wants to give away as much
as it can to encourage people to develop for its platforms.

Again - I am not saying this is a terrible thing that proves that
Microsoft's Visual Studio team are bad programmers. I just don't like
seeing one standard applied to Borland and another to Microsoft. We've got
to keep pressure on Borland AND Microsoft if we want to get good tools to
work with. Just be fair about it. Please.

How am I applying double standards to both companies? Please enlighten.
Maybe it's by your own misunderstanding, or the result of unintended vague-
ness on my behalf. My point was why should I have to pay 500-1k+ to upgrade
my development environment to get equivalent functionality in another IDE
that allows me to incrementally add-on these features for free.

Umm, how can one expect to make much off a product that is failing to meet
customer demands, apart from the existing Delphi for Win32/.NET and
C++Builder customer base upgrading?

It (what I wrote) had nothing to do with running BDS on Vista. It had
nothing
to do with running Visual Studio on Vista. It had everything to do with
developing
FOR Vista; not hacking in some API calls to achieve it, but having the
support in
the development environment.

Their .NET IDE is beginning to look like C++Builder compared to its
competition.
..NET 1.1 for a few more months, and no native Vista support in the IDE until
late 2007 is a LONG time to wait. I know .NET 3.0 is nothing but additions
to
version 2.0, but look and feel means alot to the end-user, and once they get
used
to the Vista UI they won't wanna see the Gimp XP user interfaces anymore
(personally I can care less about the eye candy, etc.).

Yes, we must keep the pressure on both companies. Microsoft is delivering,
as
expected. What's so wrong with expecting the competition to follow quickly
thereafter. I know they are a small shop comparatively, but why market your
tool as a competitor to Visual Studio if you can't keep up with the pace?
Can
you answer that, or will you just tell me "cause ECO rocks."

By the time Borland updates its .NET/Vista support to something comparable
to
Visual Studio, Microsoft will have had enough time to provide a solution for
everything it was lacking in comparison to Borland Developer Studio; and
that
is a very short list, even now.

Bye.

- Nate.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Borland and the Sub-Enterprise
    ... Delphi Professional competes with Microsoft Visual Studio. ... Borland clearly had the technical lead. ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: .NET 3.0 Final
    ... Studio 2005 works fine on Vista. ... What I was saying was that Visual Studio 2005 running on Windows ... How is Borland supposed to handle this when Microsoft itself cannot handle it? ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: .NET 3.0 Final
    ... Microsoft, ... And you don't have to develop ON Vista to target Vista, plus, Visual ... What I was saying was that Visual Studio 2005 running on Windows ... "Microsoft set off a furor among developers this week when it disclosed ...
    (borland.public.delphi.non-technical)
  • Re: side-by_side error on Vista
    ... If it tries to install the files into the SXS directory on Vista, ... in Visual Studio 2005 to find forums and newsgroups. ... You can use VS to create a setup project for your project. ... Dependency Walker told me that the offending DLLs are MSVCR80.DLL ...
    (microsoft.public.win32.programmer.ui)
  • RE: VS2005 macros not working in VISTA-RC2
    ... This was a clean install of VS2005 on top of a clean install of RC2. ... Visual Studio 2005 macros do not work on Windows Vista for many people. ... recommend AVOIDING upgrading to Vista for any production machines. ...
    (microsoft.public.vsnet.general)
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