Re: kilyx

On 2007-02-10, Brian Moelk <bmoelk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

(from bottom of msg):

Again, I'm not trying to make any "claims" or back them up.

..... Well, not much more to say then, isn't it ?

Some small points:

If we look at GUI frameworks that are used from non-native languages,
Mozilla is a good example. Here you have C++ doing all the "heavy
lifting" with XPCOM, but they primarily use XUL/XBL and Javascript to
build out the UI. There's no reason why this strategy won't work for
Pascal.

What, reimplement XPCOM in Pascal?

Swing/AWT/SWT are simply going to be used for the IDE services, not
necessarily the deployment UI. Most of the IDE services are already
built out in Eclipse and NetBeans. What's required is a sufficiently
good grammar and some additional integration points customized for
Pascal. Building an entire IDE is *not* required.

And then you only have a glorified editor with a crappy syntax highlighter.
Wow, progress: -)

XUL is dog slow, overly complex etc. The requirements for XUL (having an
infinitely configurable application GUI wise, read: Mozilla) are not
universal. It is possible that making an application that makes good/safe
use of XUL is more complex by a magnitude.

And yet we see really great, usable applications being built with XUL.

(me looks on his desktop. Sees Mozilla, nothing else)

Keep in mind that the focus of FPC is to write applications alike Delphi,

Understood, however I think even Delphi is showing its age.

Agreed.

IOW, Delphi compatibility is very important, but FPC already does
different things that Delphi does (cross platform, 64bit, generics).
There's no reason to be unnecessarily confined by the Delphi-way.

Long term. Correct. But, as you say yourself above, you can grow beyond
Delphi's confines, without radical break.

Moreover, even if you are of the radical break kind, I don't think I'd go
the way you advocate. Actually, I don't see the point of preserving
Delphi's Pascal at all then. Better clean it up _heavily_.

We already have that too, and the latter part is false. They don't have
debugging, but use GDB, just like we do.

I think you're missing my point. If you're happy with Lazarus, that's
great. Keep using it, keep developing it. I'll keep an open mind and
track its progress, but I have strategic concerns.

I like Lazarus/Delphi's principles yes. However I worked with other
environemnts a lot too. One of the things I learned is that an IDE and its
target audience are closely nit together. You can't take e.g. Delphi's
audience and retrofit Eclipse or Komodo or KDevelop on them. That doesn't
make sense.

Of course you can take that for granted, and e.g. say "I want the the
webdeveloper part of the Delphi community viable for a PHP takeover", and
narrow your public down as strategy.

However your statements are IMHO way to vague and broad for almost anything,
trying to link together some open source projects as an unescapable trend.

Sure. I don't say that is not possible, but not for a company the size of
Borland/CG.

I disagree. Because of CodeGear's size, I think it's an even better
strategy. If they were a big enough company with a lot of money it
would be more of a viable strategy to build an IDE core.

As it is now, they have to not only compete with MS and IBM and Sun on
the higher level features, but they must also build out all the
infrastructure while doing so.

But at least they can make a difference. And if they smart, they'll start
targeting a specific audience.

If Eclipse motto is one size fits all, then the whole market for more
specialised tools is open. And you are more than an entry in a list of
plugin vendors.

.

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