Re: Opinions needed about the best "Middleware suite" kbmMW vs. RO\DA

From: Sol Brown (
Date: 11/17/03

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:53 -0500

Hi Lauchlan,

    I hoped you would reply to my question, since I saw on both ng that you
recently had to make the same decisioin then me :),

    Its a little long an boring reply, but I hope you or someone else could
clarify those stuff, I would defenetly download all those trials, but I have
some question that I would like to know on before hand, so I don't have to
spend hours just first figuring out how does framework works, and then see
that they don't offer what I'm looking for.

    I just want to convert an existing C\S app using SDAC in chached updates
mode, and i'm just thinking of stuff that I could accounter due to the
converstion from my existing setup to an n-tier setup. the main thing I want
to accomplish is:

1. Cross-db option that both offer, so which framework is better suited for

2. I'm trying to figure out if those framework would give any boost to
performance for say an enviroment of about 20-30 users, since my app is
already using Chached Updates. (I guess the answer for that would be "just
try it yourself", but its hard for me, since those users are not in my
personal network, they are just clients using my app)

3. I'm making heavy use of identity fields of sql server, they serve as my
primary field, would they get refreshed when record gets posted to the

4. What about master detail, where the primary field of the master record
(as noted above) is of identity type, how would they relate to the detail
records, since I wan't them to be posted as one transaction, so I don't get
the master primary id until the master record is actuall posted to the
server. I did implment it myself for the sdac dataset, but I would like to
know if there is an official implementation for this, as well as "Cascading
updates" like, and cascading delete, so if you delete a master
record it deletes all detail records, and of course when you apply the
updates to the database, it deletes first the detail records then the master
5. How do they work with calculated?. well, one of the main purposes of
n-tier is (noted on kbmMW's site) is that you have all your bussiness logic
on the middle tier, so it could be used with diffrent types of clients. how
does this apply to calculated fields, that should be calculated on client.
For Instance, calculating an invoice line item total, that should not be on
the server bc that keep un changing due users selections, eg qty, sales
price, sales tax. ect.., but if you put it at client side you loose the idea
of n-tier, and in a big app there many intances that this could apply.

6. What about if you have diffrent sql for insert/update/delete/refresh,
which I make heavy use of in sdac?, are you able to use (if you want) and
default sql, where the it autamaticly creates the sql (for
update/delete/refresh) at run-time, and of course when you want to put your
own sql you could. Or for each update/delete you have to enter in manually?.

7. What about when you do some update to the database on a record, could you
supply some additional sql's that should run when you do database updates,
for instance when you create an invoice, and you want to update the
inventory table, could you do it in one sql (like a sql scripts), which is
how how do it in sdac.

8. This is my main concern, one of my main goals of going to n-tier, is to
have a centrilized place of placing, all business logic as well as my
formating (attributes) of my fields, like caption, alignment, size ect.,
well my main question is about the "formating part", how does this happen?,
let say I have a customer table where I setup all attributes for this table,
and I have there a field let say "CustName", and I give the caption
"Customer Name", now I want that whenever I use this field in my
application, but how would I accomplish that when I need a grid that its
data is combined of joined tables via sql?, how would it get the caption of
the field "CustName" so I dont' have to supply again the caption?

Sorry for this lengthy message, but this is actually want to know, if both
or any of those frameworks offer those stuff.
Thank so much for you help

"Lauchlan M" <> wrote in message
> > I'm in the situation to decide about which framework to buy, so please
> > provide your expierense about the above, the cons and the pro's about
> them.
> I evaluated both and think they are both excellent products. I purchased
> KbmMW as it was/is an excellent fit for a project that used to be based
> around ASTA - it fitted the project for a variety of reasons.
> I also intend to further evaluate and probably purchase RO/DA, which I
> is an excellent and well conceived product, although I suspect it might be
> optimised for Alessandro's programming philosophies which may at times be
> different to mine. <g>.
> My attitude is that they are both great tools and it really depends on the
> job you want to accomplish. I think support is great for both products,
> both have good ongoing development agendas and fairly active developer
> communities.
> My advice would be, if you have the time, to download and test both of
> Ideally make a test project that tries some of the framework you need to
> implement out.
> With KbmMW get the commercial version (the free one is considerably
> limited for database oriented work) - I believe you just download it, and
> then email Kim to ask for a password, and read the whitepapers on custom
> services, query services, and resolving from the KbmMW site.
> For RO/DA, I suggest working your way through the various articles on the
> RemObjects website.
> If you want people to recommend to go for one or the other of these, then
> you might like to provide also some general details about the nature of
> project you are involved with.
> Also, the products NexusDB (database server) and StreamSec (security, SSL
> etc) are a good fit with both products, KbmMW and RO/DA.
> Lauchlan M